After-market Hydrogen Fuels cells...
Discussion
Did a little search and found nothing on this, please feel free to direct me if a re-post.
FiL rang the other day, as he does most days.
Not racist jokes this time but to tell about his friend who has just fitted a clutch of hydrogen fuel assistor cells to his old Rangie apparently to great effect.
He (FiL) remembers similar things being around since not long after WWII but this new one seems a very tidy installation and gives his friend 40% more range out of his old 3.5 V8... which he might get with a good service TBH, but is never the less impressive.
The unit he has fitted was supplied from hydrogenhybrids and for his car requires 3 cells. At around £300 a pop that seems a bit pricey for what looks like a very simple bit of kit.
If I were to fit something similar to my car it would need 2 (as they reckon on ~1 cell per litre displacment) which would be half what I bought the car for!
The Point:
1. Does anyone have any experience of this or similar gadgets?
2. Is it the kind of thing one could possibly improvise in one's potting shed and pop on to say a 40 year old MG, just to see if it works?
DM
FiL rang the other day, as he does most days.
Not racist jokes this time but to tell about his friend who has just fitted a clutch of hydrogen fuel assistor cells to his old Rangie apparently to great effect.
He (FiL) remembers similar things being around since not long after WWII but this new one seems a very tidy installation and gives his friend 40% more range out of his old 3.5 V8... which he might get with a good service TBH, but is never the less impressive.
The unit he has fitted was supplied from hydrogenhybrids and for his car requires 3 cells. At around £300 a pop that seems a bit pricey for what looks like a very simple bit of kit.
If I were to fit something similar to my car it would need 2 (as they reckon on ~1 cell per litre displacment) which would be half what I bought the car for!
The Point:
1. Does anyone have any experience of this or similar gadgets?
2. Is it the kind of thing one could possibly improvise in one's potting shed and pop on to say a 40 year old MG, just to see if it works?
DM
That's my thoughts too, I can't believe it works. Generally it takes more energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen that is recovered from burning them to produce energy.
I kind of get what they're saying, the gases produced make the engine more efficient through cleaner burning of the air/fuel mix.
Has your FIL's mate genuinely seen an improvement in fuel consumption, or is he just quoting figures from the supplier? I'd like to see back to back quantifiable numbers to justify the claims made.
If it works, it's impressive, chances are that it's another 'snake oil' claim though.
And to answer your second question, yes, you could knock it up in your shed, there are plenty of places on the internet describing the process. However, you need to be careful about the amount of current such a system will draw, some kind of controllable regulator would be handy.
I kind of get what they're saying, the gases produced make the engine more efficient through cleaner burning of the air/fuel mix.
Has your FIL's mate genuinely seen an improvement in fuel consumption, or is he just quoting figures from the supplier? I'd like to see back to back quantifiable numbers to justify the claims made.
If it works, it's impressive, chances are that it's another 'snake oil' claim though.
And to answer your second question, yes, you could knock it up in your shed, there are plenty of places on the internet describing the process. However, you need to be careful about the amount of current such a system will draw, some kind of controllable regulator would be handy.
sinizter said:
When you add both the aftermarket hydrogen fuel cell and an electric supercharger (as seen on ebay), you can get a minimum 60% improvement in fuel consumption.
LOL, the electric superchargers really work, you just need a realllly long flex on your hair dryer.The company only "guaranteed" a 20% improvement, so the guy was very pleased with 40.
I didn't now if this widget is the real deal or, as you say, akinned to the electric supercharger (although there are ones out there that do work... but do not cost £30 quid on ebay!).
It does make sense that you could make gains by catalysing the chemical recaction with H2 and O. It just all looked too simple a set up to me...
...hence the question.
If it works, do you not think that the manufacturer's will be falling over themselves to fit this into their current cars and meet the EU regs about CO2, average CO2 across range, etc ?
Don't bring up the crap about patenting either, as even a single manufacturer licensing it out will pay more than anyone makes by selling this piecemeal to gullible motorists with an open wallet.
Don't bring up the crap about patenting either, as even a single manufacturer licensing it out will pay more than anyone makes by selling this piecemeal to gullible motorists with an open wallet.
Super Slo Mo said:
Has your FIL's mate genuinely seen an improvement in fuel consumption, or is he just quoting figures from the supplier? I'd like to see back to back quantifiable numbers to justify the claims made.
If it works, it's impressive, chances are that it's another 'snake oil' claim though.
And to answer your second question, yes, you could knock it up in your shed, there are plenty of places on the internet describing the process. However, you need to be careful about the amount of current such a system will draw, some kind of controllable regulator would be handy.
To the second answer... cool, I thought so!If it works, it's impressive, chances are that it's another 'snake oil' claim though.
And to answer your second question, yes, you could knock it up in your shed, there are plenty of places on the internet describing the process. However, you need to be careful about the amount of current such a system will draw, some kind of controllable regulator would be handy.
To the first. Apparently he really has seen this improvement... but it is a dirty old V8, so there was probably plenty of room for improvement. I thought the same about the electrolysis using more power that the gain at burn.
I get what you're saying on vested interests/figure regurgitation but in fact, as a mechanic, the chap was so impressed that he is now considering becoming a fitter of the thing rather than the other way round... IYSWIM.
danger mouse said:
To the second answer... cool, I thought so!
To the first. Apparently he really has seen this improvement... but it is a dirty old V8, so there was probably plenty of room for improvement. I thought the same about the electrolysis using more power that the gain at burn.
I get what you're saying on vested interests/figure regurgitation but in fact, as a mechanic, the chap was so impressed that he is now considering becoming a fitter of the thing rather than the other way round... IYSWIM.
Clearly, when he fitted this device, he wanted to improve his fuel consumption. This will not be the only measure he has taken. Driving style can have a huge impact on the fuel consumption - this is probably where the answer lies.To the first. Apparently he really has seen this improvement... but it is a dirty old V8, so there was probably plenty of room for improvement. I thought the same about the electrolysis using more power that the gain at burn.
I get what you're saying on vested interests/figure regurgitation but in fact, as a mechanic, the chap was so impressed that he is now considering becoming a fitter of the thing rather than the other way round... IYSWIM.
Now, if you were suggesting that the water splitter unit was being charged off the mains and then used to generate a gas that might assist fuel combustion or something along those lines, the answer might not so simple (I am willing to bet it will be nearly as simple
).sinizter said:
If it works, do you not think that the manufacturer's will be falling over themselves to fit this into their current cars and meet the EU regs about CO2, average CO2 across range, etc ?
Don't bring up the crap about patenting either, as even a single manufacturer licensing it out will pay more than anyone makes by selling this piecemeal to gullible motorists with an open wallet.
Well that depends on whether the powers that be are actually more interested in selling oil or saving the world doesn't it?Don't bring up the crap about patenting either, as even a single manufacturer licensing it out will pay more than anyone makes by selling this piecemeal to gullible motorists with an open wallet.
There's no need to be rude. I was told something interesting by someone who I trust and know to be very far from stupid and thought it would make a good conversation.
I totally agree, if it is so simple, it is odd that the big boys don't do it. TBH if I was them I would patent it and tuck it away until everything else was exhausted, and it only takes one major to do that then make a killing at the end when the others are all over a barrel...
...but that was not really what I was asking about, was it?
danger mouse said:
Super Slo Mo said:
Has your FIL's mate genuinely seen an improvement in fuel consumption, or is he just quoting figures from the supplier? I'd like to see back to back quantifiable numbers to justify the claims made.
If it works, it's impressive, chances are that it's another 'snake oil' claim though.
And to answer your second question, yes, you could knock it up in your shed, there are plenty of places on the internet describing the process. However, you need to be careful about the amount of current such a system will draw, some kind of controllable regulator would be handy.
To the second answer... cool, I thought so!If it works, it's impressive, chances are that it's another 'snake oil' claim though.
And to answer your second question, yes, you could knock it up in your shed, there are plenty of places on the internet describing the process. However, you need to be careful about the amount of current such a system will draw, some kind of controllable regulator would be handy.
To the first. Apparently he really has seen this improvement... but it is a dirty old V8, so there was probably plenty of room for improvement. I thought the same about the electrolysis using more power that the gain at burn.
I get what you're saying on vested interests/figure regurgitation but in fact, as a mechanic, the chap was so impressed that he is now considering becoming a fitter of the thing rather than the other way round... IYSWIM.
This link takes a bit more of a harsh view on things.
http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/709
I'm not going to say don't do it, and at least if you knock one up in your shed yourself, it shouldn't cost too much. Be aware though that the system will leave a residue in the water tank that requires cleaning out fairly frequently.
However, be careful what you spend your money on, as someone who's spent a few quid on various scams in my younger years, I'm a little circumspect now when it comes to getting 'something for nothing' or claims to that effect.
sinizter said:
Now, if you were suggesting that the water splitter unit was being charged off the mains and then used to generate a gas that might assist fuel combustion or something along those lines, the answer might not so simple (I am willing to bet it will be nearly as simple ).
I think an experienced mechanic would know that going-easy saves fuel, so if anything would have done the opposite while assessing it. ).There was no mention of external power sourcing either as that would clear just offset a fuel saving against a large electricity bill... unless a small roof mounted wind turbine comes as part of the package...
...er hang on.
danger mouse said:
Well that depends on whether the powers that be are actually more interested in selling oil or saving the world doesn't it?
There's no need to be rude. I was told something interesting by someone who I trust and know to be very far from stupid and thought it would make a good conversation.
I totally agree, if it is so simple, it is odd that the big boys don't do it. TBH if I was them I would patent it and tuck it away until everything else was exhausted, and it only takes one major to do that then make a killing at the end when the others are all over a barrel...
...but that was not really what I was asking about, was it?
Didn't mean to be rude. I am sorry if it sounded that way - it wasn't aimed personally at you. Someone always comes along to these kind of threads to mention patenting.There's no need to be rude. I was told something interesting by someone who I trust and know to be very far from stupid and thought it would make a good conversation.
I totally agree, if it is so simple, it is odd that the big boys don't do it. TBH if I was them I would patent it and tuck it away until everything else was exhausted, and it only takes one major to do that then make a killing at the end when the others are all over a barrel...
...but that was not really what I was asking about, was it?
Whoever owns the patent on this will be long dead before oil is gone. The best time to make use of something like this is in the transitional period between petrol and hybrid/electric vehicles since the latter will not benefit from this invention at all. That makes right about now and the near future the best time to market it.
And I don't subscribe to the selling oil conspiracy either. Oil will be sold regardless of whatever else comes along now. If they can get their hands on other technology/innovations that can be marketed alongside, then that just makes the company (oil or otherwise) that does it more money.
Super Slo Mo said:
However, be careful what you spend your money on, as someone who's spent a few quid on various scams in my younger years, I'm a little circumspect now when it comes to getting 'something for nothing' or claims to that effect.
Don't worry, I wasn't going to spend money... I was just intrigued to see if I could knock up a similar thing up in the garage and indeed if there was any point?Sounds like a "Yes" and a "Probably not".
I'll read the links in a mo'.
I was also interested to hear if anyone else had any actual experience of the De Verde device. I mean if it does do something why not say. If it doesn't, fair do's.
sinizter said:
Didn't mean to be rude. I am sorry if it sounded that way - it wasn't aimed personally at you. Someone always comes along to these kind of threads to mention patenting.
Whoever owns the patent on this will be long dead before oil is gone. The best time to make use of something like this is in the transitional period between petrol and hybrid/electric vehicles since the latter will not benefit from this invention at all. That makes right about now and the near future the best time to market it.
Cool.Whoever owns the patent on this will be long dead before oil is gone. The best time to make use of something like this is in the transitional period between petrol and hybrid/electric vehicles since the latter will not benefit from this invention at all. That makes right about now and the near future the best time to market it.
Agreed.
Forums | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff