Best riding car?
Discussion
Couple of recent threads have prompted this one (as has the continuing deterioration of our roads) but who is producing the best riding cars these days?
Ignoring the obvious Rolls Royces and Maybachs, and sticking to more real world cars, do the French still turn out nice, compliant motors - I remember my Dad's Xantia being like a magic carpet. Are the Germans too spoilt by their smooth roads to really produce cars capable of working well on our pot-holed embarrassment of a road network? Are Jaguar still striking the right balance between sporty and wafting?
Or are modern cars fundamentally flawed by our desire for ever bigger wheels, low profile tyres and an obsession with 'Ring times? Watching an old Rover (P45?) cruising in the inside lane of the M25 last week, it was almost surreal to watch the wheels absorbing all the imperfections as the car itself glided along completely unphased. Of course it would fall over if thrown at a roundabout but why haven't we really been able to crack this trade off between comfort and handling with modern technology?
Curious to hear the thoughts of the PH collective...
Ignoring the obvious Rolls Royces and Maybachs, and sticking to more real world cars, do the French still turn out nice, compliant motors - I remember my Dad's Xantia being like a magic carpet. Are the Germans too spoilt by their smooth roads to really produce cars capable of working well on our pot-holed embarrassment of a road network? Are Jaguar still striking the right balance between sporty and wafting?
Or are modern cars fundamentally flawed by our desire for ever bigger wheels, low profile tyres and an obsession with 'Ring times? Watching an old Rover (P45?) cruising in the inside lane of the M25 last week, it was almost surreal to watch the wheels absorbing all the imperfections as the car itself glided along completely unphased. Of course it would fall over if thrown at a roundabout but why haven't we really been able to crack this trade off between comfort and handling with modern technology?
Curious to hear the thoughts of the PH collective...
Jaguars still waft, but the air suspension in some models isn't as good as it used to be. Not been in a new XJ yet though. XF is softer than the equivalent 5 series, but a tea tray would have a better ride than a 5 series on runflats.
Citroen C6 is supposed to be a lovely riding car, but I've never been in one to verify. Shame the build quality isn't up to scratch either. The Top Gear horse race vs BMW 5 series gives you a good idea how well they handle bumps.
Rover 75 was deliberately softer than its German counterparts and probably one of the various reasons it didn't sell in huge numbers. But I did test drive one once (had a Rover 600 as a company car when the 75 first came out) and I can tell you it's a very very comfortable place to be.
Citroen C6 is supposed to be a lovely riding car, but I've never been in one to verify. Shame the build quality isn't up to scratch either. The Top Gear horse race vs BMW 5 series gives you a good idea how well they handle bumps.
Rover 75 was deliberately softer than its German counterparts and probably one of the various reasons it didn't sell in huge numbers. But I did test drive one once (had a Rover 600 as a company car when the 75 first came out) and I can tell you it's a very very comfortable place to be.
alfa pint said:
Jaguars still waft, but the air suspension in some models isn't as good as it used to be. Not been in a new XJ yet though. XF is softer than the equivalent 5 series, but a tea tray would have a better ride than a 5 series on runflats.
Part of the reason I started this thread is I'm thinking about our next car and the 5 series is on the list. An XF would be if they did an estate (sorry, shooting brake).I was impressed by the XK I had last year but being an 'R' was obviously on the sporty side of comfortable. Still leagues ahead of Porsche though.
Lotus seem to get it - I drove an Evora last year that was deeply impressive, not just for a sports car but any car. Their four door (I haven't learnt the names yet) should be interesting but we're getting beyond the realms of every day transport now.
300bhp/ton said:
Op it also depends what you mean by ride quality. A firmer car can be less bouncy and more comfy than a softer riding car on many roads. different road conditions suit different setups.
I know you are an American car fan, but in the rest of the world we have these things called "Dampers" which (when correctly specified) stop a soft riding car from becoming bouncy.I vote C6 too. Citroen hydro-pneumatic suspension is truly a technical marvel.
A while back I drove a 1998 Clio(basic model), the ride was like a feather bed compared to my own E60 BMW, it really opened my eyes to how harsh most cars are nowadays and confirmed how crap runflat tyres are. I think manufacturers are missing a marketing opportunity by ignoring ride in favour of racetrack cornering.
Mr Will said:
I know you are an American car fan, but in the rest of the world we have these things called "Dampers" which (when correctly specified) stop a soft riding car from becoming bouncy.
I vote C6 too. Citroen hydro-pneumatic suspension is truly a technical marvel.
Thanks Will for the insight. Reckon I learned something there I vote C6 too. Citroen hydro-pneumatic suspension is truly a technical marvel.
I was meaning more along the lines that my little Roadster easily rides better than my old Nissan did, despite being much firmer. Over rough ground it just soaks it up far better. There only exception is broken Tarmac where it looks like lines across the road. But for bumps, lumps and off camber B roads it rides mug better.
Btw - the Camaro rides better than any bar the Jeep
300bhp/ton said:
Rover P45 
Well done for being the first to spot my deliberate error.... 300bhp/ton said:
Op it also depends what you mean by ride quality. A firmer car can be less bouncy and more comfy than a softer riding car on many roads. different road conditions suit different setups.
I don't see why we should have to compromise these days - by my understanding active suspension theoretically solves the ride/handling compromise and yet things seem to be getting worse.Must be getting old but I reckon a car that can soak up our roads many imperfections will be just as quick across country, outright grip is less important on the road than compliancy.
Edited by chris_w on Wednesday 23 March 16:25
chris_w said:
300bhp/ton said:
Rover P45
Well done for being the first to spot my deliberate error.... ;-) 300bhp/ton said:
Op it also depends what you mean by ride quality. A firmer car can be less bouncy and more comfy than a softer riding car on many roads. different road conditions suit different setups.
I don't see why we should have to compromise these days - by my understanding active suspension theoretically solves the ride/handling compromise and yet things seem to be getting worse.Must be getting old but I reckon a car that can soak up our roads many imperfections will be just as quick across country, outright grip is less important on the road than compliancy.
Generally speaking, anything engineered in Britain, France or America.
In Britain, our roads are bumpy and the camber's all over the show, so we have long-travel suspension that adapts quickly to a wide variety of road surfaces, compared to the smooth tarmac of most of the rest of Europe. Even our sports cars don't ride firmly (Lotus, for example).
In France, the country used to be full of rutted tracks and bombed-out potholes. Although they have some of the best roads in the continent now, the legacy of their poor roads lead to the development of a cutting-edge suspension industry (especially Citroen, but Peugeot and Renault ride well too, and back in the art-deco era you had things like Bugatti, Delage, Delahaye, Rosengart, and later on Facel-Vega, that all had a reputation for smooth-riding).
In America, due to long, straight roads many of their cars aren't really tuned for sharp apex-clipping handling (obviously Corvettes, Vipers, Saleens and various muscle cars are a different story but we're talking run-of-the-mill saloons here), and long-distance travel is an everyday occurence, so 'ride' and the rating thereof has been an American obssession in isolation from 'handling', unlike Europe.
In Britain, our roads are bumpy and the camber's all over the show, so we have long-travel suspension that adapts quickly to a wide variety of road surfaces, compared to the smooth tarmac of most of the rest of Europe. Even our sports cars don't ride firmly (Lotus, for example).
In France, the country used to be full of rutted tracks and bombed-out potholes. Although they have some of the best roads in the continent now, the legacy of their poor roads lead to the development of a cutting-edge suspension industry (especially Citroen, but Peugeot and Renault ride well too, and back in the art-deco era you had things like Bugatti, Delage, Delahaye, Rosengart, and later on Facel-Vega, that all had a reputation for smooth-riding).
In America, due to long, straight roads many of their cars aren't really tuned for sharp apex-clipping handling (obviously Corvettes, Vipers, Saleens and various muscle cars are a different story but we're talking run-of-the-mill saloons here), and long-distance travel is an everyday occurence, so 'ride' and the rating thereof has been an American obssession in isolation from 'handling', unlike Europe.
Twincam16 said:
Generally speaking, anything engineered in Britain, France or America.
In Britain, our roads are bumpy and the camber's all over the show, so we have long-travel suspension that adapts quickly to a wide variety of road surfaces, compared to the smooth tarmac of most of the rest of Europe. Even our sports cars don't ride firmly (Lotus, for example).
In France, the country used to be full of rutted tracks and bombed-out potholes. Although they have some of the best roads in the continent now, the legacy of their poor roads lead to the development of a cutting-edge suspension industry (especially Citroen, but Peugeot and Renault ride well too, and back in the art-deco era you had things like Bugatti, Delage, Delahaye, Rosengart, and later on Facel-Vega, that all had a reputation for smooth-riding).
In America, due to long, straight roads many of their cars aren't really tuned for sharp apex-clipping handling (obviously Corvettes, Vipers, Saleens and various muscle cars are a different story but we're talking run-of-the-mill saloons here), and long-distance travel is an everyday occurence, so 'ride' and the rating thereof has been an American obssession in isolation from 'handling', unlike Europe.
There is a lot of truth in this. In Britain, our roads are bumpy and the camber's all over the show, so we have long-travel suspension that adapts quickly to a wide variety of road surfaces, compared to the smooth tarmac of most of the rest of Europe. Even our sports cars don't ride firmly (Lotus, for example).
In France, the country used to be full of rutted tracks and bombed-out potholes. Although they have some of the best roads in the continent now, the legacy of their poor roads lead to the development of a cutting-edge suspension industry (especially Citroen, but Peugeot and Renault ride well too, and back in the art-deco era you had things like Bugatti, Delage, Delahaye, Rosengart, and later on Facel-Vega, that all had a reputation for smooth-riding).
In America, due to long, straight roads many of their cars aren't really tuned for sharp apex-clipping handling (obviously Corvettes, Vipers, Saleens and various muscle cars are a different story but we're talking run-of-the-mill saloons here), and long-distance travel is an everyday occurence, so 'ride' and the rating thereof has been an American obssession in isolation from 'handling', unlike Europe.
Best car for ride Ive ever been in is a Nissan 350z. Oh wait no, actually that was atrocious, I thought it was broke.
I am fortunate to have both Citroen C5 2.2HDi Estate and MB S320CDi...the C5 has the most amazing ride ever and the best most reliable four cylinder engine (Peugeot). IMHO the MB 320CDi is the choice S Class.
You may think me nuts...but I have a 1977 TR7 FHC...brilliant ride over our terrible roads! My TVR Griffith 500 however gets bumped out of line...
You may think me nuts...but I have a 1977 TR7 FHC...brilliant ride over our terrible roads! My TVR Griffith 500 however gets bumped out of line...
300bhp/ton said:
Are there many cars with active suspension these days? I know there was the Xantia Activa and the Soarer Active. Didn't realise there where any others. But I do agree
There should be more shouldn't there? But we obviously don't demand a good ride as consumers, preferring more obvious fripperies such as blingy wheels and pub-talk 'Ring times.I'd have thought that modern technology would have made active suspension more cost effective. Good to hear that Citreon are still turning out a decent ride though, just can't see the wife going for one...
Range rover on normal wheels and tyres (ie non 'pimped' 22" blingin rims) still takes some beating.
The new XJ however, got picked up in one the other day the latest addition to the fleet of a firm I use and my god! That is wafty! Beautiful ride. Guessing that the all aluminium body = lower weight = less to 'crash down' over the rough stuff???? (laymans engineering!!!!)
The new XJ however, got picked up in one the other day the latest addition to the fleet of a firm I use and my god! That is wafty! Beautiful ride. Guessing that the all aluminium body = lower weight = less to 'crash down' over the rough stuff???? (laymans engineering!!!!)
charge said:
I think the lighter the car, the harder to get a smooth ride, the heavier the car the better the ride ( in theory ). It's all to do with unsprung weight divided by vehicle weight ( I think ). Obviously good absorption rates and soft dampers play a big part.
I think it depends on exactly what you're trying to deal with. Heavy cars deal better with small bumps that can be entirely absorbed by the suspension because as you say, the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass is typically higher; however, the suspension has to work harder to dampen out the motion from larger undulations that actually force the body to move.Or something. I might be completely wrong.
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