Are base models the best all round cars you can buy?
Discussion
Recently test drove a base model Tesla model 3 RWD and I was shocked at how much kit it had, 320 miles of range showing with 85% battery, heated and cooled seats, led headlights, adaptive cruise, great sound system, really quick, which made me think, what s the point in the performance?
Currently driving a 2022 Audi a4 avant technik as a company car, not my choice but it s really got me thinking, are base models the best cars all round for value for money, kit and comfort?
This cars got everting I could want, adaptive cruise, car play, slick DSG box and enough power to waft along nicely and overtake easily, great headlights. I just don t feel like I m missing anything
Sure a A4 s line looks better, but leather seats are crap in summer and crap in winter, the base models got cloth, which is just nice all year round
The wheels are tiny and the tyres are huge, so it absorbs bumps and potholes with ease where a S line trim would crash over them with rock hard suspension and massive wheels
It s got a light coloured headliner so I don t feel like I m sitting in a cave
It s just great at being a car and I can t find any fault with it, which got me thinking, what does a BMW M3 or M340i offer over a 320i, sure they re much faster, but you can barely use power like that on that road and 90% of the time you re commuting or ferrying the kids around so what s the point in it?
Which lead me on to the 911, what does a turbo or even a GT3 bring as such an advantage apart from being faster? A base 911 is hardly a slouch, and IMO is the best looking car in the range.
And even more so with EVs, the range toppers have more power at the sacrifice of a bit of range, what s the point in a i4 m60 when the 40 provides the same sort of experience and is massively cheaper?
Cars today are so well equipped and refined, is there any point in a range topper anymore? Gone are the days where the base trim didn t get air con, alloy wheels, electric windows or ABS, all it seems to get you now is a fixed glass sunroof and a bigger set of wheels or some 360 cameras
Any other examples of cars where the base trim is as good as the range topper? Or vice versa?
Currently driving a 2022 Audi a4 avant technik as a company car, not my choice but it s really got me thinking, are base models the best cars all round for value for money, kit and comfort?
This cars got everting I could want, adaptive cruise, car play, slick DSG box and enough power to waft along nicely and overtake easily, great headlights. I just don t feel like I m missing anything
Sure a A4 s line looks better, but leather seats are crap in summer and crap in winter, the base models got cloth, which is just nice all year round
The wheels are tiny and the tyres are huge, so it absorbs bumps and potholes with ease where a S line trim would crash over them with rock hard suspension and massive wheels
It s got a light coloured headliner so I don t feel like I m sitting in a cave
It s just great at being a car and I can t find any fault with it, which got me thinking, what does a BMW M3 or M340i offer over a 320i, sure they re much faster, but you can barely use power like that on that road and 90% of the time you re commuting or ferrying the kids around so what s the point in it?
Which lead me on to the 911, what does a turbo or even a GT3 bring as such an advantage apart from being faster? A base 911 is hardly a slouch, and IMO is the best looking car in the range.
And even more so with EVs, the range toppers have more power at the sacrifice of a bit of range, what s the point in a i4 m60 when the 40 provides the same sort of experience and is massively cheaper?
Cars today are so well equipped and refined, is there any point in a range topper anymore? Gone are the days where the base trim didn t get air con, alloy wheels, electric windows or ABS, all it seems to get you now is a fixed glass sunroof and a bigger set of wheels or some 360 cameras
Any other examples of cars where the base trim is as good as the range topper? Or vice versa?
I'm with you to a degree, certainly on the 911 as my ideal 911 would be a basic manual 997 Carrera S, and the difference between a 320i and a 330i for instance isn't really of note.
But the difference between an M3 and a 320i is quite stark, not just in kit and spec, but in the driving experience.
You only get the nice engines in the top of the line models, otherwise you have a 3 or 4 cylinder which whilst quick enough, lack the character that many like me are after. Not so much an issue in comparing EVs, they all have the same experience, just varying degrees of it.
But the difference between a little 3 cylinder turbo and a 6 cylinder turbo is enough, as well as the inclusion of a differential to help use the power.
Any argument of not being able to use the power these days isn't really valid, as you can absolutely make use of, say, 450hp and benefit from this over 200hp in a similar sized car, even remaining legal.
If it comes down to simple transport, then sure, the base model is the most appropriate one. But for those that like driving, the top spec might be better!
But the difference between an M3 and a 320i is quite stark, not just in kit and spec, but in the driving experience.
You only get the nice engines in the top of the line models, otherwise you have a 3 or 4 cylinder which whilst quick enough, lack the character that many like me are after. Not so much an issue in comparing EVs, they all have the same experience, just varying degrees of it.
But the difference between a little 3 cylinder turbo and a 6 cylinder turbo is enough, as well as the inclusion of a differential to help use the power.
Any argument of not being able to use the power these days isn't really valid, as you can absolutely make use of, say, 450hp and benefit from this over 200hp in a similar sized car, even remaining legal.
If it comes down to simple transport, then sure, the base model is the most appropriate one. But for those that like driving, the top spec might be better!
It’s clearly a case of diminishing returns.
My dad always had a thing for getting the biggest, poshest car he could but with the smallest engine in base spec. I spent my childhood in a succession of Swedish and German cars with asthmatic engines, cloth seats, window winders and blank dashboards where buttons should be. Many of my friends dads had Fords and Vauxhalls with 6cyl engines, leather seats and electric everything.
Clearly carrying childhood trauma because I prefer to get the top spec of a smaller more affordable model.
My dad always had a thing for getting the biggest, poshest car he could but with the smallest engine in base spec. I spent my childhood in a succession of Swedish and German cars with asthmatic engines, cloth seats, window winders and blank dashboards where buttons should be. Many of my friends dads had Fords and Vauxhalls with 6cyl engines, leather seats and electric everything.
Clearly carrying childhood trauma because I prefer to get the top spec of a smaller more affordable model.
LightweightLouisDanvers said:
I like a leather interior, it's something I search for in a (usually second hand) car. Not many base models offer this.
Especially if you have kids, dogs or a partner with sub-adult awareness of their fingers/shoes; wipe-clean is great!From a purely tactile/luxury pov fabric is preferable in theory, but we're talking about base models so what you'll actually get is a scratchy poverty grade synthetic...
I don’t know, sometimes it’s nice to have the best a manufacturer can do.
Expand the argument and everyone should be driving a Dacia (nothing wrong with driving a Dacia).
If you don’t feel any value in an M3 over a 320, then buy the 320 and be happy. It doesn’t need justifying and there isn’t a right or wrong, only a good fit to your wants, There is always an emotional element to a decision like choosing a car, so just run what you think fits you.
Expand the argument and everyone should be driving a Dacia (nothing wrong with driving a Dacia).
If you don’t feel any value in an M3 over a 320, then buy the 320 and be happy. It doesn’t need justifying and there isn’t a right or wrong, only a good fit to your wants, There is always an emotional element to a decision like choosing a car, so just run what you think fits you.
I think it’s that with the base model you get most of the top model, the fundamentals, the development and basic car for a lot less money.
Nowadays it’s usually enough of a car and a lot of stuff is superfluous, specs are pretty good now even on entry level cars, aircon, DAB radio etc etc. engines are pretty good and most aren’t total deal loss material like they sometimes were in the past.
A lot is vanity, an I am up for that, guilty, don’t need the top version but tend to gravitate to it, who wants the “business” nav in a BMW, when the “pro” looks so much better, it’s so contrived to play to our insecurities, nobody wants the “poverty” version, though that’s a daft term.
I think the best models tend to be in the mid range, Goldilocks style, not too hot, not too cold but if you want the top model, often nothing else will do.
In some cases the lower spec models are nicer to live with, Audis SE vs S Line is a case in point, drove some S Line versions in the past and was aware of the ride being enough to set one’s moobs all of a jiggle, Cooper S Mini is another, a Mini one I bought to sell was a pleasant thing, Cooper S Clubman with 17 inch run flats and sports suspension and it was bloody horrible.
I do wonder how much the brand, model and spec dictates how much is whether we tell ourselves we are enjoying it because we think it is desirable, and how many really good cars get slated due to not having the right badge ?
Nowadays it’s usually enough of a car and a lot of stuff is superfluous, specs are pretty good now even on entry level cars, aircon, DAB radio etc etc. engines are pretty good and most aren’t total deal loss material like they sometimes were in the past.
A lot is vanity, an I am up for that, guilty, don’t need the top version but tend to gravitate to it, who wants the “business” nav in a BMW, when the “pro” looks so much better, it’s so contrived to play to our insecurities, nobody wants the “poverty” version, though that’s a daft term.
I think the best models tend to be in the mid range, Goldilocks style, not too hot, not too cold but if you want the top model, often nothing else will do.
In some cases the lower spec models are nicer to live with, Audis SE vs S Line is a case in point, drove some S Line versions in the past and was aware of the ride being enough to set one’s moobs all of a jiggle, Cooper S Mini is another, a Mini one I bought to sell was a pleasant thing, Cooper S Clubman with 17 inch run flats and sports suspension and it was bloody horrible.
I do wonder how much the brand, model and spec dictates how much is whether we tell ourselves we are enjoying it because we think it is desirable, and how many really good cars get slated due to not having the right badge ?
bigmowley said:
Furbo said:
bigmowley said:
Blame da Gram.
Top model or your a looser.
Sorted
Your haiku needs some work.Top model or your a looser.
Sorted
Blame the Instagram
Top model or your a looser
Sorted that for you
Any better?
"You're a loser" I would prefer.
I do wonder, though, mowley whether poetry really is your strong suit.
Furbo said:
bigmowley said:
Furbo said:
bigmowley said:
Blame da Gram.
Top model or your a looser.
Sorted
Your haiku needs some work.Top model or your a looser.
Sorted
Blame the Instagram
Top model or your a looser
Sorted that for you
Any better?
"You're a loser" I would prefer.
I do wonder, though, mowley whether poetry really is your strong suit.
To be honest, it's more pronounced in EVs such as the Tesla you mentioned.
Traditionally, the main pitfall of a model lower down the range was its powertrain - who'd want a wheezy 4 pot, when the 6-cylinder version higher up the range was more refined, more responsive and came with a decent auto box rather than the stodgy manual with a clutch delay valve? The more expensive one was a better car.
With EVs, buying the more powerful one doesn't make it any more refined, responsive or effortless. All it does is make it faster in situations that rarely occur in driving on a public road. it doesn't make it a better car in the same way.
Traditionally, the main pitfall of a model lower down the range was its powertrain - who'd want a wheezy 4 pot, when the 6-cylinder version higher up the range was more refined, more responsive and came with a decent auto box rather than the stodgy manual with a clutch delay valve? The more expensive one was a better car.
With EVs, buying the more powerful one doesn't make it any more refined, responsive or effortless. All it does is make it faster in situations that rarely occur in driving on a public road. it doesn't make it a better car in the same way.
I like cars that are rare/left field so for me it's usually a case of finding a vehicle in the colour I want with the right mileage and service history.
I will generally pay no attention to spec.
For clarity, just bought an Abarth 124 Spider.
27 on Autotrader.
7 manuals.
4 in white.
2 in budget.
Both had the heritage pack which I wanted but neither had the visibility pack so I'm having to live with shocking lights.
If I were after a Fiesta then spec would be a factor.
I will generally pay no attention to spec.
For clarity, just bought an Abarth 124 Spider.
27 on Autotrader.
7 manuals.
4 in white.
2 in budget.
Both had the heritage pack which I wanted but neither had the visibility pack so I'm having to live with shocking lights.
If I were after a Fiesta then spec would be a factor.
Lower rung cars can be:
- smaller wheels so better ride and lower limits
- less power so more thrash able on road
- possibly lighter total weight and engine mass therefore less nose heavy
- potentially better steering feel
- less toys so less to go wrong
- I have experienced better driving positions e.g. if manual Vs electric seats
Buy one that's the sweet spot on road and you will likely have the best car for the use case.
They can lose out on some mechanical goodies like LSDs etc but often the aftermarket will take care of that.
I've never been a huge fan of BMW M cars as I usually find them frustrating at anything other than going fast.
- smaller wheels so better ride and lower limits
- less power so more thrash able on road
- possibly lighter total weight and engine mass therefore less nose heavy
- potentially better steering feel
- less toys so less to go wrong
- I have experienced better driving positions e.g. if manual Vs electric seats
Buy one that's the sweet spot on road and you will likely have the best car for the use case.
They can lose out on some mechanical goodies like LSDs etc but often the aftermarket will take care of that.
I've never been a huge fan of BMW M cars as I usually find them frustrating at anything other than going fast.
Base is Best. Less weight / less crap to go wrong / wat less complicated.
My TD-5 Disco 2 is a base spec car, so no s
te leaky sunroof, daft rear jump seats, no leaky roof bar holes.
The E46 M3 would have been So much better without the “ Luxo Barge “ options a buyer could chose, inc glass sun roof, a rear blind ( seriously ) electric power fold mirrors ( seriously ) crap nav etc etc.
My TD-5 Disco 2 is a base spec car, so no s
te leaky sunroof, daft rear jump seats, no leaky roof bar holes. The E46 M3 would have been So much better without the “ Luxo Barge “ options a buyer could chose, inc glass sun roof, a rear blind ( seriously ) electric power fold mirrors ( seriously ) crap nav etc etc.
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