air conditioning servicing - what/why?
Discussion
This is going to sound a bit silly...
I've never needed to do this on a car before... but I swear the air conditioning on my normal car is getting less efficient/cold (it's a 2018 BMW). So I have a bunch of questions:
- why does air conditioning need servicing (I suppose I get this - it's mechanical)
- why does it need refilling when other similar devices (e.g. fridges) don't!!??
- what tests are done/can be done to know that you actually need it topped up?
- what is actually done in an air conditioning service?
it all seems like a bit of a con the way much of it is marketed - how do I make sure I have a decent job done, and don't just get ripped off?
I've never needed to do this on a car before... but I swear the air conditioning on my normal car is getting less efficient/cold (it's a 2018 BMW). So I have a bunch of questions:
- why does air conditioning need servicing (I suppose I get this - it's mechanical)
- why does it need refilling when other similar devices (e.g. fridges) don't!!??
- what tests are done/can be done to know that you actually need it topped up?
- what is actually done in an air conditioning service?
it all seems like a bit of a con the way much of it is marketed - how do I make sure I have a decent job done, and don't just get ripped off?
PlywoodPascal said:
This is going to sound a bit silly...
I've never needed to do this on a car before... but I swear the air conditioning on my normal car is getting less efficient/cold (it's a 2018 BMW). So I have a bunch of questions:
- why does air conditioning need servicing (I suppose I get this - it's mechanical)
- why does it need refilling when other similar devices (e.g. fridges) don't!!??
- what tests are done/can be done to know that you actually need it topped up?
- what is actually done in an air conditioning service?
it all seems like a bit of a con the way much of it is marketed - how do I make sure I have a decent job done, and don't just get ripped off?
1 - If it's working and can blow cold but less cold than usual it'll need the gas "topped up". In reality they suck out all the existing gas to make sure the right amount goes in. If it's not moving enough air your cabin filter (or microfilter as BMW call it I think) could be blocked. If it's not cold at all (i.e. just blows ambient outdoor temperature air when it's set as low as possible it's possible just so much has slowly leaked a regass will get it working again, but also possible something is properly faulty and will need replacing. Usually the condenser radiator that sits at the very front of the cooling pack in front of the regular engine cooling radiator.I've never needed to do this on a car before... but I swear the air conditioning on my normal car is getting less efficient/cold (it's a 2018 BMW). So I have a bunch of questions:
- why does air conditioning need servicing (I suppose I get this - it's mechanical)
- why does it need refilling when other similar devices (e.g. fridges) don't!!??
- what tests are done/can be done to know that you actually need it topped up?
- what is actually done in an air conditioning service?
it all seems like a bit of a con the way much of it is marketed - how do I make sure I have a decent job done, and don't just get ripped off?
2 - A fridge gets to sit still at room temperature, the system in a car is vibrated, sees extremes of temperature, and otherwise exists in a pretty hostile environment. There are more connectors and pipes in a car system than in a fridge where the compressor is in a sealed vessel and the coolant tubes are all permanently welded together.
3 - Suck out the gas and see how much was still in there
4 - See 1.
No real scope or point in ripping you off, they attach the machine, press a button, it sucks out the gas and holds the system at a vacuum for a bit to check it's not leaking, and then puts in the right amount of gas from either a computer lookup against your model or the bloke reading it off the sticker in the engine bay and typing it in. You can probably watch it happen.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Monday 15th July 12:11
Car aircons are not impermeable so gas does leak out over time. You do need to periodically re-gas your Aircon. Costs about £80 but you only really need to if you don't it's not cooling very well.
Six years is not too bad but I think the dealership might be trying it on. Likely they'll just regas and probably change some filters.
Six years is not too bad but I think the dealership might be trying it on. Likely they'll just regas and probably change some filters.
I think that AC is strange! It stopped blowing cold after two years from new. The garage did the emptying and refilling thing and all is fine. I wonder if it'll need that every 2 years - it's 3 years old now.
In terms of ripping off, I think that the prices for a refill vary a lot between main dealers, tyre places and independents.
I had it done on another car a couple of years back by and indy in East Midlands way cheaper than the local down south tyre place quoted.
In terms of ripping off, I think that the prices for a refill vary a lot between main dealers, tyre places and independents.
I had it done on another car a couple of years back by and indy in East Midlands way cheaper than the local down south tyre place quoted.
As Mr Genius has said, you fridge sits still in a fairly stable room chugging out cold air. Your car is like a roller coaster in comparison with temperature ranges from -10C to +40 and water/mud/grit/salt/stones are blasted at the condensor.
You mentioned some a/c services feel like a con, but did you know that one of the most lambasted car repair companies offer the best air con service - that's Kwik-Fit - where they offer no recharge - no fee:
Recharge or No Charge
Let Kwik Fit recharge your air con while you wait. We will replace and recharge lubricant and refrigerant levels in line with your manufacturer’s recommendation. If we cannot improve the coolest vent temperature from your car by more than 10% when measured in degrees Celsius - then you pay nothing at all.*
If you have pre-paid by booking your appointment online, we will arrange for your credit or debit card to be refunded.
You mentioned some a/c services feel like a con, but did you know that one of the most lambasted car repair companies offer the best air con service - that's Kwik-Fit - where they offer no recharge - no fee:
Recharge or No Charge
Let Kwik Fit recharge your air con while you wait. We will replace and recharge lubricant and refrigerant levels in line with your manufacturer’s recommendation. If we cannot improve the coolest vent temperature from your car by more than 10% when measured in degrees Celsius - then you pay nothing at all.*
If you have pre-paid by booking your appointment online, we will arrange for your credit or debit card to be refunded.
- Please note if the ambient temperature around the car is less than 9 degrees Celsius it may affect the results of the air con recharge test results. In these circumstances, it is at the manager’s discretion whether to offer a refund with results less than 10%
Car aircon systems also work much better when used all year round. If you turn them off in the winter "because it's cold and you don't need air conditioning", you get problems with seals drying out, consequent leaks etc. If you lose the gas, then probably the compressor will die because it relies on lubricant being carried around the closed system.
6 years doesn't sound unreasonable for needing a service - typically this will just be connecting it up to the relevant machine, removing the gas, checking it holds vacuum, and then refilling if it's OK. Should cost £50-100 if there's no issues.
6 years doesn't sound unreasonable for needing a service - typically this will just be connecting it up to the relevant machine, removing the gas, checking it holds vacuum, and then refilling if it's OK. Should cost £50-100 if there's no issues.
BertBert said:
I think that AC is strange! It stopped blowing cold after two years from new. The garage did the emptying and refilling thing and all is fine. I wonder if it'll need that every 2 years - it's 3 years old now.
In terms of ripping off, I think that the prices for a refill vary a lot between main dealers, tyre places and independents.
I had it done on another car a couple of years back by and indy in East Midlands way cheaper than the local down south tyre place quoted.
R1234yf systems seem to need topping up more often, and modern systems seem to hold less refrigerant to start with.In terms of ripping off, I think that the prices for a refill vary a lot between main dealers, tyre places and independents.
I had it done on another car a couple of years back by and indy in East Midlands way cheaper than the local down south tyre place quoted.
I just had both my cars done last week, and asked a lot of questions which the nice man running the machine was more than willing to answer.
Cars leak aircon gas for a few reasons. They are sealed by o rings on the pipe joints, these need to have oil on them so they swell a bit to keep the system sealed. They will still leak though. The compressor is sealed by a seal on the rotating shaft, this also needs to oil to seal effectively. This will also leak to a certain extent.
If you only use your ac when it's hot on July the 14th every years the oil will not lubricate the seals and the gas will leak out. So use your aircon often, at least 5 hours a month.
The refill process involves, sucking out the remaining gas and oil, it will also suck out any dye that is in the system, this dye is used for leak detection. Next a vacuum is applied to the system and held for a certain amount of time, if the machine detect no loss of vacuum then new oil, dye and gas are injected in the correct quantity. A test is then performed on the system and air coming out of the vents in the car should be less that 10 degrees c, this will also depend of the ambient temperature when tested.
The machine will record how much gas was sucked out so you can tell if it has all leaked out or not. The system will need 70% (ish) of its recommended amount of gas to function. If it is low on gas the pressure switch will not activate. These switches often fail, apparently.
If you can't hear the compressor clicking in when you switch on the AC chances are it needs refilling.
The process is all automated and you just connect the pipes and program the amount of gas needed and 20 odd minutes later it will be done.
It cost me £54 per car including VAT.
Cars leak aircon gas for a few reasons. They are sealed by o rings on the pipe joints, these need to have oil on them so they swell a bit to keep the system sealed. They will still leak though. The compressor is sealed by a seal on the rotating shaft, this also needs to oil to seal effectively. This will also leak to a certain extent.
If you only use your ac when it's hot on July the 14th every years the oil will not lubricate the seals and the gas will leak out. So use your aircon often, at least 5 hours a month.
The refill process involves, sucking out the remaining gas and oil, it will also suck out any dye that is in the system, this dye is used for leak detection. Next a vacuum is applied to the system and held for a certain amount of time, if the machine detect no loss of vacuum then new oil, dye and gas are injected in the correct quantity. A test is then performed on the system and air coming out of the vents in the car should be less that 10 degrees c, this will also depend of the ambient temperature when tested.
The machine will record how much gas was sucked out so you can tell if it has all leaked out or not. The system will need 70% (ish) of its recommended amount of gas to function. If it is low on gas the pressure switch will not activate. These switches often fail, apparently.
If you can't hear the compressor clicking in when you switch on the AC chances are it needs refilling.
The process is all automated and you just connect the pipes and program the amount of gas needed and 20 odd minutes later it will be done.
It cost me £54 per car including VAT.
DaveCWK said:
It is odd how this varies - i've known some cars that still blow ice cold that haven't been topped up for at least 15 years, & others that need doing regularly every 2-3 years with apparently no leaks.
The cars that don't need topping up are probably the ones that never have the AC turned off. But they will still probably need topping up. Most only turn the AC on when its hot.
The only car I've had with air-con that wasn't blowing cold air was my Fabia and after a successful pressure test and gas recharge (and still no cold air), I read the fault codes and discovered a duff sensor was the cause. I was led to believe turning the systems off stopped the lubricating oil circulating and over time the seals dry out and start to leak but not sure how much truth there is in that. Mine is left on year round and our current cars at 14 and 7 years old still produce icy cold air without having needed any air con servicing.
Chris
Chris
outnumbered said:
Car aircon systems also work much better when used all year round. If you turn them off in the winter "because it's cold and you don't need air conditioning", you get problems with seals drying out, consequent leaks etc. If you lose the gas, then probably the compressor will die because it relies on lubricant being carried around the closed system.
Another reason your fridge keeps working is it gets left on all the time. ARHarh said:
DaveCWK said:
It is odd how this varies - i've known some cars that still blow ice cold that haven't been topped up for at least 15 years, & others that need doing regularly every 2-3 years with apparently no leaks.
The cars that don't need topping up are probably the ones that never have the AC turned off.
Current BMW is now over 7 years old, climate left on auto since day one, and still blowing cold air.
Previous BMW owned from new for 6 years, and climate left on auto since day one, and was still blowing cold air when sold.
Before that, Saab 9-5 owned from 12 months old, climate left on auto from day bought, and still blowing cold air when sold 7 years later.
Contrast with ex-work colleague who only switched his on when temp got over 25C and was always complaining it's rubbish, as it never works properly when he needs it......and has had numerous services and been told my numerous people to leave the bloody thing witched on auto, but won't listen as air con uses too much fuel, yadda, yadda.....etc.
Puddenchucker said:
Some places will also try to bump up the cost by offering an anti-microbial / anti-bacterical treatment.
Unless your air-con is a bit whiffy it isn't necessary, and the chemical small can hang around for weeks.
I bought about 20 bottles of car a/c disinfectant/deodorant for about £1 each from the Middle of Lidl back in the day when they had decent screenwash.Unless your air-con is a bit whiffy it isn't necessary, and the chemical small can hang around for weeks.
I get air con serviced every two or three years. It highlights any potential issues. We have a mobile guy that we use for all the cars, including my brothers and parents.
Benefits include of doing so are a decent health check on all Air con components, identifies any small leaks before the system shuts down. Emptying the system under vacuum for a leak check also removes any residual moisture out of the system. I know the drier usually catches the moisture but this also helps keep the system optimal. And most importantly he injects the dye/oil to keep the Teflon o rings lubricated so they don't dry out.
For me it's worth spending the £65 every couple of years to keep the system at optimal efficiency. And it keeps a small local run business going.
Benefits include of doing so are a decent health check on all Air con components, identifies any small leaks before the system shuts down. Emptying the system under vacuum for a leak check also removes any residual moisture out of the system. I know the drier usually catches the moisture but this also helps keep the system optimal. And most importantly he injects the dye/oil to keep the Teflon o rings lubricated so they don't dry out.
For me it's worth spending the £65 every couple of years to keep the system at optimal efficiency. And it keeps a small local run business going.
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