Last car with accelerator feedback - or is there any now?
Discussion
I had an XJ40 that had what I am going to term "accelerator feedback". Being a cable throttle, when you had cruise control on you could feel exactly where the throttle was though your foot and when you disabled the cruise control for whatever reason you could do this perfectly smoothly with little brain.
I also had an X308 where by then it was by then no longer the case, and it was a shame. Obviously you could still disconnect smoothly, but it required a bit more brain.
(I also had an X300 but can't remember where it was on that spectrum, but my guess is like the XJ40)
And now we have one pedal driving in many cars, where this is even more important, but as far as I know there are none where the accelerator pedal moves (or more accurately you felt where the accelerator had resistance to).
Does anything still have this feedback - that is to say feeling the action of an automated throttle - or in one pedal driving, throttle/brake - through the pedal? If not, what was the last car car to?
I also had an X308 where by then it was by then no longer the case, and it was a shame. Obviously you could still disconnect smoothly, but it required a bit more brain.
(I also had an X300 but can't remember where it was on that spectrum, but my guess is like the XJ40)
And now we have one pedal driving in many cars, where this is even more important, but as far as I know there are none where the accelerator pedal moves (or more accurately you felt where the accelerator had resistance to).
Does anything still have this feedback - that is to say feeling the action of an automated throttle - or in one pedal driving, throttle/brake - through the pedal? If not, what was the last car car to?
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Tuesday 13th October 23:36
Mr Tidy said:
IIRC BMW E46 323i and 328i had a cable throttle until they got replaced by the 325i and 330i around 2000, although I don't know if they had cruise.
My 1994 Mercedes C280 had a DBW set up that went wrong!
The Mk3 Mondeo had a throttle cable and cruise control -- we had one in the family and I used to drive it. Entire setup was so primitive that the cruise control mechanism used to move the accelerator up and down; used to be a fun party trick to press the 'Resume Speed' button whilst at low speed in third gear and get the passengers to look at the poltergeist pedal. The car would actually floor itself. My 1994 Mercedes C280 had a DBW set up that went wrong!
Our Mondeo was an '06' registration, although I've no idea what relevance the above has to anything as the vast majority of electronic-injection cars, as far as I understand things, have an element of drive-by-wire regardless actual throttle mechanism (servo or piece of string). Anything with a pedal-position sensor will take from it a 'prime' instruction to squirt fuel, thus be ready to do it when the throttle flap actually opens. It doesn't matter whether the onward communication is then mechanical or electronic.
Early fuel injection systems used cables and changes in air temperature or pressure to control metering. They were far less responsive than a decent modern setup because need for system to work out what was happening to it and then react. It's all in the programming, most likely, although carburettors are still the best.
MDT said:
Fastdruid said:
It's going to pretty much rely on being cable throttle *and* cruise control. What was the last car with a cable throttle?
Something early 2000's at a guess.
2016 Land Rover Defender had a cable and if speced has cruise control Something early 2000's at a guess.
Mr E said:
StuntmanMike said:
Remember that poster that was obsessed by throttle response and claimed he choose a E46 320d over a E46 M3 on that basis alone.
He would derail any post he contributed too.
I may be due a woosh parrot, but a 320d has no throttle plate?He would derail any post he contributed too.
It also had a very good throttle response.
Yes, old school diesels didn't have throttle bodies, the more modern stuff does.
Regarding accelerator feedback (OP), it does exist, what you're looking for is a "haptic throttle pedal" - however, the use for these tends to be hybrids, where it gives you feedback that you're about to force the engine to kick in due to excessive throttle demand.
I'm really not sure what feedback you're looking for with cruise control... if you put your foot down on the throttle more than what cruise is using to gain speed it'll do that, but not sure why you need feedback on it (surely you only put your foot on the throttle when cruising if you want to briefly exceed the cruise speed)?
Regarding accelerator feedback (OP), it does exist, what you're looking for is a "haptic throttle pedal" - however, the use for these tends to be hybrids, where it gives you feedback that you're about to force the engine to kick in due to excessive throttle demand.
I'm really not sure what feedback you're looking for with cruise control... if you put your foot down on the throttle more than what cruise is using to gain speed it'll do that, but not sure why you need feedback on it (surely you only put your foot on the throttle when cruising if you want to briefly exceed the cruise speed)?
Somewhatfoolish said:
I had an XJ40 that had what I am going to term "accelerator feedback". Being a cable throttle, when you had cruise control on you could feel exactly where the throttle was though your foot and when you disabled the cruise control for whatever reason you could do this perfectly smoothly with little brain.
I also had an X308 where by then it was by then no longer the case, and it was a shame. Obviously you could still disconnect smoothly, but it required a bit more brain.
(I also had an X300 but can't remember where it was on that spectrum, but my guess is like the XJ40)
And now we have one pedal driving in many cars, where this is even more important, but as far as I know there are none where the accelerator pedal moves (or more accurately you felt where the accelerator had resistance to).
Does anything still have this feedback - that is to say feeling the action of an automated throttle - or in one pedal driving, throttle/brake - through the pedal? If not, what was the last car car to?
We bought a Granada Scorpio 2.9 automatic as a tow car and it had this feature. However my father already had an XJ8, the throttle pedal moving away felt so primitive in comparison I had no faith in it and never used cruise on the Granny.I also had an X308 where by then it was by then no longer the case, and it was a shame. Obviously you could still disconnect smoothly, but it required a bit more brain.
(I also had an X300 but can't remember where it was on that spectrum, but my guess is like the XJ40)
And now we have one pedal driving in many cars, where this is even more important, but as far as I know there are none where the accelerator pedal moves (or more accurately you felt where the accelerator had resistance to).
Does anything still have this feedback - that is to say feeling the action of an automated throttle - or in one pedal driving, throttle/brake - through the pedal? If not, what was the last car car to?
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Tuesday 13th October 23:36
SuperPav said:
Yes, old school diesels didn't have throttle bodies, the more modern stuff does.
Well yes but it's not like a petrol throttle body where how far you open it is directly related to how much power you get. It's entirely computer controlled and there for emissions (and closes fully on shutdown to prevent run-aways). Mr E said:
StuntmanMike said:
Remember that poster that was obsessed by throttle response and claimed he choose a E46 320d over a E46 M3 on that basis alone.
He would derail any post he contributed too.
I may be due a woosh parrot, but a 320d has no throttle plate?He would derail any post he contributed too.
It also had a very good throttle response.
MDT said:
An interesting fact, the BMW N52 engine was a 3.0L Straight 6 petrol. which also did not have a throttle plate...
It also had a very good throttle response.
But it was also DBW. I'm on my fourth N52 now, although one of them was a 2.5 litre. My S54 also responds pretty well to a heavy right foot!It also had a very good throttle response.
I quite like the old school cruise control systems that rely on a vacuum bellows pulling the throttle cable so the pedal moves! My DB7 has that, and my recently scrapped X300.
I can see how people might find it disconcerting though, but as you say it makes it easy to take over smoothly from cruise because you press what little slack there is left in the pedal until you feel the spring, then shut off cruise and you're holding the throttle in just the same place the cruise control was.
I can see how people might find it disconcerting though, but as you say it makes it easy to take over smoothly from cruise because you press what little slack there is left in the pedal until you feel the spring, then shut off cruise and you're holding the throttle in just the same place the cruise control was.
SuperPav said:
I'm really not sure what feedback you're looking for with cruise control... if you put your foot down on the throttle more than what cruise is using to gain speed it'll do that, but not sure why you need feedback on it (surely you only put your foot on the throttle when cruising if you want to briefly exceed the cruise speed)?
What this fellow says (yes you can do it with knowing the car well or accepting a bit of a jerk, but I have a thing about smoothness):GeniusOfLove said:
as you say it makes it easy to take over smoothly from cruise because you press what little slack there is left in the pedal until you feel the spring, then shut off cruise and you're holding the throttle in just the same place the cruise control was.
GeniusOfLove said:
I quite like the old school cruise control systems that rely on a vacuum bellows pulling the throttle cable so the pedal moves! My DB7 has that, and my recently scrapped X300.
I can see how people might find it disconcerting though, but as you say it makes it easy to take over smoothly from cruise because you press what little slack there is left in the pedal until you feel the spring, then shut off cruise and you're holding the throttle in just the same place the cruise control was.
I wonder if the phantom accelerator is a Ford thing, given our Mondeo had one too? Aston Martin and Jaguar cars from that period will have Ford bits fitted (which make them better!). I can see how people might find it disconcerting though, but as you say it makes it easy to take over smoothly from cruise because you press what little slack there is left in the pedal until you feel the spring, then shut off cruise and you're holding the throttle in just the same place the cruise control was.
Glitzy Mitzy said:
GeniusOfLove said:
I quite like the old school cruise control systems that rely on a vacuum bellows pulling the throttle cable so the pedal moves! My DB7 has that, and my recently scrapped X300.
I can see how people might find it disconcerting though, but as you say it makes it easy to take over smoothly from cruise because you press what little slack there is left in the pedal until you feel the spring, then shut off cruise and you're holding the throttle in just the same place the cruise control was.
I wonder if the phantom accelerator is a Ford thing, given our Mondeo had one too? Aston Martin and Jaguar cars from that period will have Ford bits fitted (which make them better!). I can see how people might find it disconcerting though, but as you say it makes it easy to take over smoothly from cruise because you press what little slack there is left in the pedal until you feel the spring, then shut off cruise and you're holding the throttle in just the same place the cruise control was.
Pre Ford Jaguars are the same, and I'm sure I've used some old Mercs where someone paid the value of an entire Allegro to add cruise control that did it too.
This thread did remind me of how astonishingly heavy the throttle could be on some V12 Jaguars, having to move all the linkages and two separate throttle plate springs I guess. It really did get hard work on a long drive!
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