Anonymity as a poster?
Discussion
Whats the deal here with personal anonymity re IP addresses etc etc?
As much as Im enjoying the Oakey thread, on further refelction it has made me slightly uncomfortable about personal anonymity.
The thought of having PH use my IP address to publicly 'out' me in some way goes against the grain of posting. As much as I don't like the person we now know Oakey is, I can't help thinking Id be apoplectic in his position.
Have I misunderstood the PH policy?
As much as Im enjoying the Oakey thread, on further refelction it has made me slightly uncomfortable about personal anonymity.
The thought of having PH use my IP address to publicly 'out' me in some way goes against the grain of posting. As much as I don't like the person we now know Oakey is, I can't help thinking Id be apoplectic in his position.
Have I misunderstood the PH policy?
blindswelledrat said:
Have I misunderstood the PH policy?
No, you've misunderstood how the internet works.IP addresses, being a military invention, were purposefully made to be non-geographic, let alone link a number with an actual living human being - you may remember discussions about the piracy letters being speculatively sent using this as a defence?
Organisations have started to collate databases of who owns and runs ranges of IP addresses but it doesn't really go beyond that IP address connects to that exchange, which could service many tens of thousands of people. ISP records which do link the IP and the Person are private, requiring a court order to obtain with valid reason.
You must however realise that when you use the internet you leave a footprint, which can and has been proved to link your use of one site to your link of another site. Drop that personal information somewhere and Google will enable anyone, anyone at all, to trace that personal data. Also remember that what you see presented on a website is not what Google can see, as it can see non-readable information. So some websites, of which PH isn't one, may record your email address, for instance in plain view of Google, so might another. So it's not a massive leap of faith to see how you could be linked. Lets say on Site B you posted your phone number, innocuously, or perhaps your postcode. It doesn't take long, as members, not moderators or HM staff but normal PH members have proved to find individuals if they're not careful with their data.
You're a well known chap on here, I dare say you've met people from the internet who know your real name and what you do for a living, what if one of them was to email another member, randomly, with that information and they were to post it?
In summary, PH rules haven't changed at all and nor have people.
Plotloss said:
blindswelledrat said:
Have I misunderstood the PH policy?
No, you've misunderstood how the internet works.IP addresses, being a military invention, were purposefully made to be non-geographic, let alone link a number with an actual living human being - you may remember discussions about the piracy letters being speculatively sent using this as a defence?
Organisations have started to collate databases of who owns and runs ranges of IP addresses but it doesn't really go beyond that IP address connects to that exchange, which could service many tens of thousands of people. ISP records which do link the IP and the Person are private, requiring a court order to obtain with valid reason.
You must however realise that when you use the internet you leave a footprint, which can and has been proved to link your use of one site to your link of another site. Drop that personal information somewhere and Google will enable anyone, anyone at all, to trace that personal data. Also remember that what you see presented on a website is not what Google can see, as it can see non-readable information. So some websites, of which PH isn't one, may record your email address, for instance in plain view of Google, so might another. So it's not a massive leap of faith to see how you could be linked. Lets say on Site B you posted your phone number, innocuously, or perhaps your postcode. It doesn't take long, as members, not moderators or HM staff but normal PH members have proved to find individuals if they're not careful with their data.
You're a well known chap on here, I dare say you've met people from the internet who know your real name and what you do for a living, what if one of them was to email another member, randomly, with that information and they were to post it?
In summary, PH rules haven't changed at all and nor have people.
While, I don't doubt that everything I've ever published on the internet is traceable, it does take a degree of effort.
An analogy. I sometimes suggest that it isn't worth locking my car at all. If someone really wants to steal it ... they will.
What we have here (in my opinion) is a breach of trust.
Someone, in a position of some authority, has demonstrated that they'd happily hand over the keys to my car.
Cheers,
Eric
Plotloss said:
So if a non-moderator had done it, that would be fine?
No, not at all. I would, however, expect the admin team to excercise and demonstrate their integrity by shutting things down quickly and not adding fuel to fire.Plotloss said:
Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Yup, I'm totally fine with that. I don't know what the privileges are for a PH mod so I accept what you're saying 100%.Cheers,
Eric
Plotloss said:
So if a non-moderator had done it, that would be fine?
Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Just out of basic curiosity is there any way you could prove to us that there was no abuse?.Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Just to say it dosn't bother me if JAYB didnt anything "un-ethical" PH wise i doubt he did as the Mods on most occasions are very good at judging the mood of a thread and can work out the limits and boundarys, i believe we are all responsible for what we post or do on this site (learnt that the hard way
), oakey's life and behaviour would come out one way or another, im just curious if it possible it could be proved that theres no abuse?.ZOLLAR said:
Plotloss said:
So if a non-moderator had done it, that would be fine?
Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Just out of basic curiosity is there any way you could prove to us that there was no abuse?.Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Just to say it dosn't bother me if JAYB didnt anything "un-ethical" PH wise i doubt he did as the Mods on most occasions are very good at judging the mood of a thread and can work out the limits and boundarys, i believe we are all responsible for what we post or do on this site (learnt that the hard way
), oakey's life and behaviour would come out one way or another, im just curious if it possible it could be proved that theres no abuse?.Plotloss said:
ZOLLAR said:
Plotloss said:
So if a non-moderator had done it, that would be fine?
Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Just out of basic curiosity is there any way you could prove to us that there was no abuse?.Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Just to say it dosn't bother me if JAYB didnt anything "un-ethical" PH wise i doubt he did as the Mods on most occasions are very good at judging the mood of a thread and can work out the limits and boundarys, i believe we are all responsible for what we post or do on this site (learnt that the hard way
), oakey's life and behaviour would come out one way or another, im just curious if it possible it could be proved that theres no abuse?.Although in a way you did confirm theres no abuse via your response!.
Any hoo im happy with the site, carry on
Plotloss said:
So if a non-moderator had done it, that would be fine?
I honestly don't see that being said anywhere - or even hinted at.It looks to me, very much as an outsider, that what is being said is that the "outing" of the OP's brother was poor form - probably against the posting rules about posting to cause embarrassment / harassment etc as it had more or less no other purpose - and the fact it was a MOD that did it simply exacerbates the issue.
Plotloss said:
Disagree all you like, I'm in possession of the facts and I can tell you that there was no abuse of our tools in this case.
Some of the facts are on the site for all to see though Plotloss... like the moderator clearly naming the OPs brother in his post. Or at least they were......Also, it doesn't help paint a reasonable picture when threads like this are pruned of people making valid points. And when the comments by the moderator in the thread being discussed suddenly vanish.
There was definitely a post in here a few minutes ago that listed some of the T&Cs and asked if they were broken in this case by the moderators.
What would help - I think - is if it could be cleared up quite how the OP's brother's identity found it's way onto the thread in question.
And before any wonderfully clever comments are made - I have no axe to grind here, I have been finding PH a real breath of fresh air recently and spending more time back here as it feels a lot like it used to in parts. Garlick will be able to corroborate that this isn't something I am inventing too.
Edited by Gorvid on Wednesday 1st September 23:04
BliarOut said:
Kiltie said:
Plotloss said:
So if a non-moderator had done it, that would be fine?
No, not at all. I would, however, expect the admin team to excercise and demonstrate their integrity by shutting things down quickly and not adding fuel to fire.The fact is that mods assume a position of authority and are privilege to certain degrees of information regarding contributors.
Have fun? - yes, of course!
Use their position in an unscrupulous manner? - definitely no! (and that's not what's being discussed here)
Contribute to a topic not in the spirit of the forum? - definitely no! ... and that's what I reckon has happened in this instance.
Cheers,
Eric
BliarOut said:
Kiltie said:
Plotloss said:
So if a non-moderator had done it, that would be fine?
No, not at all. I would, however, expect the admin team to excercise and demonstrate their integrity by shutting things down quickly and not adding fuel to fire.
, also with threads like oakeys is that with all the F5's and traffic it probably generates quite a revenue for Ph, perhaps thats how it works Garlic et al are like the story writers for a sitcom and we are the viewers , more viewers = more money 
Yep.
For most of my time on PH I've worked for businesses in connection with the automotive industry.
There have been times where I've wanted to give an errant manufacturer both barrels and then throw in a grenade or two of extra derision over a piss-poor current model or business decision... but held back because the manufacturer in question has been a client or future business prospect, and while I think of myself as "mostly" anonymous there is still the possibility a dedicated troublemaker could have traced things back and caused an awful lot of difficulty.
For most of my time on PH I've worked for businesses in connection with the automotive industry.
There have been times where I've wanted to give an errant manufacturer both barrels and then throw in a grenade or two of extra derision over a piss-poor current model or business decision... but held back because the manufacturer in question has been a client or future business prospect, and while I think of myself as "mostly" anonymous there is still the possibility a dedicated troublemaker could have traced things back and caused an awful lot of difficulty.
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