Are all ford petrol's hybrid now?
Discussion
What's going on, I keep looking for a new car but every time I do I just think wow I'm better off sticking with what I've got for a good while longer.
Thought I'd try looking at Fords today and my (very laxed) criteria was 2018+, under 125k, auto, 2.0L+ petrol. This is what came up
The ones they do list are things like rangers starting about £30k
Is that seriously right, can you not buy a 2.0 petrol Ford now that isn't a hybrid? who wants a dodgy battery that gets you about 5 miles and will render the car defunct costing thousands to put right.
Contrast with Audi, exactly the same criteria.
Honestly, I've got a 2012 Audi A4 quattro 2.0 diesel with 150k on at the moment, had it 8 years and have used it as a tip run car for the last couple of them, but cleaned up it still looks and drives fine. Everything I've looked at seems to be some sort of horror story, DPF's, injectors, wet belts, turbos failing left right and centre, ingeniums, 15k batteries, its like being the victim in a horror film.
Thought I'd try looking at Fords today and my (very laxed) criteria was 2018+, under 125k, auto, 2.0L+ petrol. This is what came up
The ones they do list are things like rangers starting about £30k
Is that seriously right, can you not buy a 2.0 petrol Ford now that isn't a hybrid? who wants a dodgy battery that gets you about 5 miles and will render the car defunct costing thousands to put right.
Contrast with Audi, exactly the same criteria.
Honestly, I've got a 2012 Audi A4 quattro 2.0 diesel with 150k on at the moment, had it 8 years and have used it as a tip run car for the last couple of them, but cleaned up it still looks and drives fine. Everything I've looked at seems to be some sort of horror story, DPF's, injectors, wet belts, turbos failing left right and centre, ingeniums, 15k batteries, its like being the victim in a horror film.
The mpg isn't really a problem, I wont be using it that much. I just won't buy anything electric, ever. If you want a reason why its because I think there is a good chance I will end up losing out on £10k+ when the battery breaks. That may be an irrational thought or it may not be but I'll never take the chance on being convinced it won't.
So Fords are basically out then as a future car, I can't be the only one that thinks like this, I've had plenty in the past, Escorts, Granadas, Sierra 4x4's, you name it and I've probably owned most fords at one time or another seems daft they don't cater for me now.
Looks like another Audi is a firm favourite then for my next car, I would even consider another diesel from them as long as its the same engine as what I've got now, its been absolutely faultless over those 8 years.
So Fords are basically out then as a future car, I can't be the only one that thinks like this, I've had plenty in the past, Escorts, Granadas, Sierra 4x4's, you name it and I've probably owned most fords at one time or another seems daft they don't cater for me now.
Looks like another Audi is a firm favourite then for my next car, I would even consider another diesel from them as long as its the same engine as what I've got now, its been absolutely faultless over those 8 years.
Gtom said:
Just buy a car without a battery and be done with it then?
Try finding one, 2L petrol and auto - no wet belts, no DPF/EGR's, no hybrids, no mercs as they have dodgy auto boxes, no shopping cars, there isn't much left unless I buy something as old as I already have.The main criteria though is I must be able to repair it on my drive with bits from ebay no matter what goes wrong with it.
Depends what kind of car you're after and what the budget is?
Focus ST 2.3 auto
Mustang 5.0 auto
For mainstream cars most manufacturers ditched larger capacity engines for smaller turbo units which is why searching for 2.0 litres isn't bringing much up. The Kuga has a 1.5T petrol with 180bhp for example.
Also it's worth considering that not all hybrids are the same. A mild hybrid will just have a small battery to help with performance and efficiency rather than actually power the car.
Might be worth looking at Mazda. They have shunned turbocharging and stuck with bigger engines. You can get a Mazda3 2.0 petrol auto which should be reliable.
But most modern cars are complex and expensive these days as they need to meet standards on emissions. If you want something you can work on yourself with second hand parts I'd just stick with older cars.
Focus ST 2.3 auto
Mustang 5.0 auto
For mainstream cars most manufacturers ditched larger capacity engines for smaller turbo units which is why searching for 2.0 litres isn't bringing much up. The Kuga has a 1.5T petrol with 180bhp for example.
Also it's worth considering that not all hybrids are the same. A mild hybrid will just have a small battery to help with performance and efficiency rather than actually power the car.
Might be worth looking at Mazda. They have shunned turbocharging and stuck with bigger engines. You can get a Mazda3 2.0 petrol auto which should be reliable.
But most modern cars are complex and expensive these days as they need to meet standards on emissions. If you want something you can work on yourself with second hand parts I'd just stick with older cars.
Frane Selak said:
The mpg isn't really a problem, I wont be using it that much. I just won't buy anything electric, ever. If you want a reason why its because I think there is a good chance I will end up losing out on £10k+ when the battery breaks. That may be an irrational thought or it may not be but I'll never take the chance on being convinced it won't.
So Fords are basically out then as a future car, I can't be the only one that thinks like this, I've had plenty in the past, Escorts, Granadas, Sierra 4x4's, you name it and I've probably owned most fords at one time or another seems daft they don't cater for me now.
Looks like another Audi is a firm favourite then for my next car, I would even consider another diesel from them as long as its the same engine as what I've got now, its been absolutely faultless over those 8 years.
Unless you have got some independent data (and not anecdotal stories on the net here and there) about the "actual" risk of battery failure on a hybrid being extremely high, then it's not just an irrational fear that is dominating your thoughts, but you are approaching your car purchase from a perspective of "emotion" rather than "data and logic" So Fords are basically out then as a future car, I can't be the only one that thinks like this, I've had plenty in the past, Escorts, Granadas, Sierra 4x4's, you name it and I've probably owned most fords at one time or another seems daft they don't cater for me now.
Looks like another Audi is a firm favourite then for my next car, I would even consider another diesel from them as long as its the same engine as what I've got now, its been absolutely faultless over those 8 years.
That's entirely your choice though.
Frane Selak said:
The mpg isn't really a problem, I wont be using it that much. I just won't buy anything electric, ever. If you want a reason why its because I think there is a good chance I will end up losing out on £10k+ when the battery breaks.
Most proper hybrids do long warranties on the batteries these days, because they don't fail very often. If you get a Toyota/Lexus serviced or checked at a main dealer every year they'll extend the battery warranty out to 15 years.ChrisH72 said:
Also it's worth considering that not all hybrids are the same. A mild hybrid will just have a small battery to help with performance and efficiency rather than actually power the car.
A mild hybrid is basically a small battery and some energy recovery to let it use the stop-start a bit more effectively. Dunno about Ford but a Volvo V60 mild hybrid has a 48V battery with about 0.3 kWh capacity, that's roughly equivalent power to a 25 Ah 12v battery. Most car's 12V battery will be 50-60 Ah. These things are pretty small, but they are more expensive than a 12V battery, around £1500-£2000 to replace rather than the £10k in the OP.
RizzoTheRat said:
A mild hybrid is basically a small battery and some energy recovery to let it use the stop-start a bit more effectively. Dunno about Ford but a Volvo V60 mild hybrid has a 48V battery with about 0.3 kWh capacity, that's roughly equivalent power to a 25 Ah 12v battery. Most car's 12V battery will be 50-60 Ah. These things are pretty small, but they are more expensive than a 12V battery, around £1500-£2000 to replace rather than the £10k in the OP.
It seems an excessively complicated system for the minimal benefits and they can leave you stranded without warning according to the BMW forums and are only covered by the standard 3 year warranty not the 8 year battery warranty on the plug in hybrids/electric cars.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Ford warranty is only for 3 years as well.
Audi are being economical with the truth. Almost all Audis post 2020 are mild hybrid. They just don't bother telling you. You have to go pre-2020 if you want to avoid it. They all have the 48V mild hybrid system which is common across almost all manufacturers.
All of the systems have the same failure profile - sudden and unexpected failure resulting in the car becoming completely immobile. This issue can affect pretty much all brands with the 48v, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Kia, Ford, Stellantis and so on. I believe that the implementation of the system was rushed and a 'bolt-on' provided by one or two battery companies as the failures are identical across brands.
Stuff like Toyota is different but also suffers from an issue of parasitic drain on the regular starter battery which can leave the car inoperable (although not when running as is the case with the 48v system). Google any brand and 48v reliability and you'll see the same complaints and issues.
These are the worst type of reliability problems, expensive, difficult to fix (many garages cannot work on high voltage systems) and sudden and complete loss of power when driving. Wet belt etc. problems are minor in comparison as a 48v failure can leave the car immobile on a motorway and there are no warning signs that it will occur.
The systems offer basically no advantages and are just another way of trying to comply with draconian emissions standards in the EU.
It is very difficult to find new/nearly new non-hybrid cars in the UK. Your best bet is probably the VAG EA888 engine as these are non hybrid and reliable, with the common faults being reasonably minor (water pump, coolant housing) and DIYable. This can be found in the Skoda, Passat, Golf, A3, A4, Leon and other variants. Any Audi badged as a 45 or 55 tfsi is a 48v hybrid and they don't make it clear.
Ignore the other rude and unhelpful posters on the thread.
All of the systems have the same failure profile - sudden and unexpected failure resulting in the car becoming completely immobile. This issue can affect pretty much all brands with the 48v, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Kia, Ford, Stellantis and so on. I believe that the implementation of the system was rushed and a 'bolt-on' provided by one or two battery companies as the failures are identical across brands.
Stuff like Toyota is different but also suffers from an issue of parasitic drain on the regular starter battery which can leave the car inoperable (although not when running as is the case with the 48v system). Google any brand and 48v reliability and you'll see the same complaints and issues.
These are the worst type of reliability problems, expensive, difficult to fix (many garages cannot work on high voltage systems) and sudden and complete loss of power when driving. Wet belt etc. problems are minor in comparison as a 48v failure can leave the car immobile on a motorway and there are no warning signs that it will occur.
The systems offer basically no advantages and are just another way of trying to comply with draconian emissions standards in the EU.
It is very difficult to find new/nearly new non-hybrid cars in the UK. Your best bet is probably the VAG EA888 engine as these are non hybrid and reliable, with the common faults being reasonably minor (water pump, coolant housing) and DIYable. This can be found in the Skoda, Passat, Golf, A3, A4, Leon and other variants. Any Audi badged as a 45 or 55 tfsi is a 48v hybrid and they don't make it clear.
Ignore the other rude and unhelpful posters on the thread.
macron said:
Gtom said:
I have got a Ford that falls in to this category.
2.5 hybrid, 57mpg without being plugged in vs 2.0 tdci 40mpg and no worry of ad blue or dpf issues.
8 or 10 year warranty on the battery (I forget which).
Swallow your pride and accept the change.
What do you have?2.5 hybrid, 57mpg without being plugged in vs 2.0 tdci 40mpg and no worry of ad blue or dpf issues.
8 or 10 year warranty on the battery (I forget which).
Swallow your pride and accept the change.
Most of our salesmen have them as company cars and seem to enjoy them, they move fairly decent too within reason
MrWideFit said:
macron said:
Gtom said:
I have got a Ford that falls in to this category.
2.5 hybrid, 57mpg without being plugged in vs 2.0 tdci 40mpg and no worry of ad blue or dpf issues.
8 or 10 year warranty on the battery (I forget which).
Swallow your pride and accept the change.
What do you have?2.5 hybrid, 57mpg without being plugged in vs 2.0 tdci 40mpg and no worry of ad blue or dpf issues.
8 or 10 year warranty on the battery (I forget which).
Swallow your pride and accept the change.
Most of our salesmen have them as company cars and seem to enjoy them, they move fairly decent too within reason
It was neither fish nor foul, when running in EV mode it didn't have the power to get out its own way and when the petrol motor kicked in it was a harsh 4 cylinder CVT drone.
My Explorer is so much nicer place to be in.
(oh yes, the OP is a dinosaur than thinks EVs will explode in flames every 5 miles
)CMTMB said:
Master Bean said:
Why does it need to be 2L? Most of the Focus' will be 1.0 or 1.5.
Because OP is a dinosaur.there is nothing wrong in wanting a simple engine to do simple stuff for you without bankrupting you in the meantime.
sneezer212 said:
Audi are being economical with the truth. Almost all Audis post 2020 are mild hybrid. They just don't bother telling you. You have to go pre-2020 if you want to avoid it. They all have the 48V mild hybrid system which is common across almost all manufacturers.
All of the systems have the same failure profile - sudden and unexpected failure resulting in the car becoming completely immobile. This issue can affect pretty much all brands with the 48v, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Kia, Ford, Stellantis and so on. I believe that the implementation of the system was rushed and a 'bolt-on' provided by one or two battery companies as the failures are identical across brands.
Stuff like Toyota is different but also suffers from an issue of parasitic drain on the regular starter battery which can leave the car inoperable (although not when running as is the case with the 48v system). Google any brand and 48v reliability and you'll see the same complaints and issues.
These are the worst type of reliability problems, expensive, difficult to fix (many garages cannot work on high voltage systems) and sudden and complete loss of power when driving. Wet belt etc. problems are minor in comparison as a 48v failure can leave the car immobile on a motorway and there are no warning signs that it will occur.
The systems offer basically no advantages and are just another way of trying to comply with draconian emissions standards in the EU.
It is very difficult to find new/nearly new non-hybrid cars in the UK. Your best bet is probably the VAG EA888 engine as these are non hybrid and reliable, with the common faults being reasonably minor (water pump, coolant housing) and DIYable. This can be found in the Skoda, Passat, Golf, A3, A4, Leon and other variants. Any Audi badged as a 45 or 55 tfsi is a 48v hybrid and they don't make it clear.
Ignore the other rude and unhelpful posters on the thread.
So I'm not an irrational fool after all then. surprised about the Audis though. I just don't see any benefit to saving a few pence on a journey but trading that few pence for a potential liability of a few thousand pounds, makes no sense.All of the systems have the same failure profile - sudden and unexpected failure resulting in the car becoming completely immobile. This issue can affect pretty much all brands with the 48v, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Kia, Ford, Stellantis and so on. I believe that the implementation of the system was rushed and a 'bolt-on' provided by one or two battery companies as the failures are identical across brands.
Stuff like Toyota is different but also suffers from an issue of parasitic drain on the regular starter battery which can leave the car inoperable (although not when running as is the case with the 48v system). Google any brand and 48v reliability and you'll see the same complaints and issues.
These are the worst type of reliability problems, expensive, difficult to fix (many garages cannot work on high voltage systems) and sudden and complete loss of power when driving. Wet belt etc. problems are minor in comparison as a 48v failure can leave the car immobile on a motorway and there are no warning signs that it will occur.
The systems offer basically no advantages and are just another way of trying to comply with draconian emissions standards in the EU.
It is very difficult to find new/nearly new non-hybrid cars in the UK. Your best bet is probably the VAG EA888 engine as these are non hybrid and reliable, with the common faults being reasonably minor (water pump, coolant housing) and DIYable. This can be found in the Skoda, Passat, Golf, A3, A4, Leon and other variants. Any Audi badged as a 45 or 55 tfsi is a 48v hybrid and they don't make it clear.
Ignore the other rude and unhelpful posters on the thread.
macron said:
Gtom said:
I have got a Ford that falls in to this category.
2.5 hybrid, 57mpg without being plugged in vs 2.0 tdci 40mpg and no worry of ad blue or dpf issues.
8 or 10 year warranty on the battery (I forget which).
Swallow your pride and accept the change.
What do you have?2.5 hybrid, 57mpg without being plugged in vs 2.0 tdci 40mpg and no worry of ad blue or dpf issues.
8 or 10 year warranty on the battery (I forget which).
Swallow your pride and accept the change.
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