Replacing a Subaru Legacy Spec.B manual estate

[LotsOfLaughs]

This is a long one!
Currently have a 2006 Legacy Spec.b, it does absolutely everything I want, although it is a bit thirsty and the annual road tax isn't the cheapest, ohh and I guess more steering "feel" would be nice.
It's at the age a mileage now where the cost of repairing it is starting to make me look for it's replacement. Nothing major yet, ball joints, drop links, suspension bushes, and so on. A 3 figure bill every time, on top of the usual tyres and brake pads, which don't last long because I drive it like a yob. I know it can't be long now until it spits out a much bigger bill, the center diff, rear subframe, headgaskets, gearbox rebuild, something like that. If nothing else will do the job, then I guess I'll keep paying.

So, new car requiements;
- Must be a propper driver's car, the sort of thing you can enjoy a good road with.

- Budget not more than £7500 (This leaves money asside for servicing, tyres, brakes and so on, should these not be up to scratch on the car I find)

- Must be newer than my current car, looking around the 2015/16 age range ideally, so about half as old, ideally half the miles, so not more than 75k, but I might have to wiggle on some of these figures.

- Must be at least as fast, I don't want a downgrade in performance. A 3.0L flat 6 non-turbo Subaru is basically a Toyota Camry V6 rival, it's hardly a rocket, it's just not quite as slow as most other cars.

- Must be able to tow, I only tow a small tip trailer a few times a year, I don't need an SUV, but it has to be able to have a towbar fitted, and be homologated for towing (i.e, not a JDM import, the V5 has to have a towing weight in it, a Fiat Panda would do for this.)

- Must be dog friendly, so estate with a retractable load cover, not a hatchback with a parcel shelf, and not a saloon, obviously. A Fabia estate is big enough, a Golf hatchback isn't.

- Must not be front wheel drive, and preferably not Haldex either, but will try if there's no alternative.

- If RWD, must be available with a limited slip diff, factory or aftermarket, within budget.

- Must be manual

- Must not be significantly more expensive to run (fuel economy, expected maintainance, and so on) than my current car. Nothing with the timing chains/belt located up it's arse which need changing every 600 yards.

- A sunroof or panoramic roof would be nice, as would adaptive cruise control, a full size spare wheel, and a manual handbrake, but I can live without.

- Preferably available in a nice colour, not just black/grey/silver/red. Blue of green ideally.

Things I don't care about
- Rear head and legroom or actual boot capacity, just big enough for my relatively big dog.
- Towing capacity, its a small trailer, and it's not full of bricks.
- The badge on the bonnet, infact Id prefer a non-flash brand.
- Ride comfort, it's unlikely to be so bad I can't live with it, and I'm happy to go for smaller wheels with bigger tyres if the ride is bad.
- Electronic stuff, adjustable driving modes, traction control, ESP, I don't need any of it. ABS and airbags are a must, but I doubt I'll find a car of this age without them.
- Bells and whistles, fancy interior, leather, bla bla bla. Manual cloth seats are fine, no satnav, parking sensors or screens is fine.

I can't find anything which ticks every box. The closest I've found is the Audi S4 Avant, B8, but the newest one of those I think is a 2010/11. The other option is the Impreza WRX STI hatchback, the newest of those being about the same age as the Audi, although I'm doubtful about the boot. Both of those sit in the top road tax band, at £765 or whatever it is now, and I doubt either will be any lighter on fuel. Plenty of choice if I'm willing to go for an automatic, or a slower car, but I'd rather keep my old Subaru going as long as possible if that's the case. I also don't see any more options if I were to extend my budget, other than buying multiple cars, which I'm not keen on doing. I've tried that before, and always found myself wishing I was in the fast car when trying to overtake, or wishing I was in the big car when I pop to the shops and the kayaks or picnic tables or something are on special offer.

If you can think of anything, do let me know, thanks!

[lemonslap]

That’s going to be a tough car to replace! I unfortunately lost my Spec B as it was written off back in 2013 by a dosey idiot deciding they wanted to use the back of it to stop.. I replaced it with a Audi S4 B8 Avant manual, however it felt very nose heavy compared to the subaru and wanted to push wide at the front during spirited driving. At that budget I would be looking towards a BMW as they tend to be more 50/50 weight distribution.

[Chimune]

Having recently been through a similar thought process from same car (utterly brilliant), I spent some time looking at jaguar sportbrake.

Didn't do it in the end as ended up replacing both cars in house at same time, but still really fancy one.

[Krikkit]

Either spend and sort out the one you've got or import a JDM one - £7.5k will probably get a WR Ltd 2.0 twin scroll to the UK

[ZX10R NIN]

That's a really tough one but if you can find one then the VXR Insignia Estate is a (although they really respond to a remap that puts the torque in that Vauxhall took out) very good steer.

Early models suffered with cam chain stretch but this was seemingly resolved on later cars.

Running costs will be no more than you have now, imo these are a better car than the S4 but they're harder to find:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202510197...



Mileage will be high but a 2.0t 328i will fit the bill:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/197886027308?itmmeta=01...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202510237...

I'd suggest test driving the Focus ST, yes it's fwd but they really handle & would give your Legacy a hard time:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202511208...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202511228...

320i, you won't need an lsd:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/205744635662?itmmeta=01...

Not as good as the ST but the VRS Octabia will cover ground at a decent pace:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202511218...

[Fred Smith]

LotsOfLaughs said:

This is a long one!
Currently have a 2006 Legacy Spec.b, it does absolutely everything I want, although it is a bit thirsty and the annual road tax isn't the cheapest, ohh and I guess more steering "feel" would be nice.
It's at the age a mileage now where the cost of repairing it is starting to make me look for it's replacement. Nothing major yet, ball joints, drop links, suspension bushes, and so on. A 3 figure bill every time, on top of the usual tyres and brake pads, which don't last long because I drive it like a yob. I know it can't be long now until it spits out a much bigger bill, the center diff, rear subframe, headgaskets, gearbox rebuild, something like that. If nothing else will do the job, then I guess I'll keep paying.

So, new car requiements;
- Must be a propper driver's car, the sort of thing you can enjoy a good road with.

- Budget not more than £7500 (This leaves money asside for servicing, tyres, brakes and so on, should these not be up to scratch on the car I find)

- Must be newer than my current car, looking around the 2015/16 age range ideally, so about half as old, ideally half the miles, so not more than 75k, but I might have to wiggle on some of these figures.

- Must be at least as fast, I don't want a downgrade in performance. A 3.0L flat 6 non-turbo Subaru is basically a Toyota Camry V6 rival, it's hardly a rocket, it's just not quite as slow as most other cars.

- Must be able to tow, I only tow a small tip trailer a few times a year, I don't need an SUV, but it has to be able to have a towbar fitted, and be homologated for towing (i.e, not a JDM import, the V5 has to have a towing weight in it, a Fiat Panda would do for this.)

- Must be dog friendly, so estate with a retractable load cover, not a hatchback with a parcel shelf, and not a saloon, obviously. A Fabia estate is big enough, a Golf hatchback isn't.

- Must not be front wheel drive, and preferably not Haldex either, but will try if there's no alternative.

- If RWD, must be available with a limited slip diff, factory or aftermarket, within budget.

- Must be manual

- Must not be significantly more expensive to run (fuel economy, expected maintainance, and so on) than my current car. Nothing with the timing chains/belt located up it's arse which need changing every 600 yards.

- A sunroof or panoramic roof would be nice, as would adaptive cruise control, a full size spare wheel, and a manual handbrake, but I can live without.

- Preferably available in a nice colour, not just black/grey/silver/red. Blue of green ideally.

Things I don't care about
- Rear head and legroom or actual boot capacity, just big enough for my relatively big dog.
- Towing capacity, its a small trailer, and it's not full of bricks.
- The badge on the bonnet, infact Id prefer a non-flash brand.
- Ride comfort, it's unlikely to be so bad I can't live with it, and I'm happy to go for smaller wheels with bigger tyres if the ride is bad.
- Electronic stuff, adjustable driving modes, traction control, ESP, I don't need any of it. ABS and airbags are a must, but I doubt I'll find a car of this age without them.
- Bells and whistles, fancy interior, leather, bla bla bla. Manual cloth seats are fine, no satnav, parking sensors or screens is fine.

I can't find anything which ticks every box. The closest I've found is the Audi S4 Avant, B8, but the newest one of those I think is a 2010/11. The other option is the Impreza WRX STI hatchback, the newest of those being about the same age as the Audi, although I'm doubtful about the boot. Both of those sit in the top road tax band, at £765 or whatever it is now, and I doubt either will be any lighter on fuel. Plenty of choice if I'm willing to go for an automatic, or a slower car, but I'd rather keep my old Subaru going as long as possible if that's the case. I also don't see any more options if I were to extend my budget, other than buying multiple cars, which I'm not keen on doing. I've tried that before, and always found myself wishing I was in the fast car when trying to overtake, or wishing I was in the big car when I pop to the shops and the kayaks or picnic tables or something are on special offer.

If you can think of anything, do let me know, thanks!

I think your best option is to sell it to me and then worry about your next car. My only real issue with my current estate is that I would have loved to have got a 3.0R Spec B manual estate (but if I'd got the Spec B I'd have been lusting after my current one).

[valiant]

Two nice Mitsubishi Legnums in AT at the moment.

Bit older than your requirements but look very nice indeed.

[LotsOfLaughs]

ZX10R NIN said:

That's a really tough one but if you can find one then the VXR Insignia Estate is a (although they really respond to a remap that puts the torque in that Vauxhall took out) very good steer.

Early models suffered with cam chain stretch but this was seemingly resolved on later cars.

Running costs will be no more than you have now, imo these are a better car than the S4 but they're harder to find:

Mileage will be high but a 2.0t 328i will fit the bill:

I'd suggest test driving the Focus ST, yes it's fwd but they really handle & would give your Legacy a hard time:

320i, you won't need an lsd:

Not as good as the ST but the VRS Octabia will cover ground at a decent pace

Thanks - I'll go through these one at a time.
Insignia - I've never driven one, so it might not be fair for me to criticise, but just looking at the specifications, they're very heavy (1930kg kerbweight), and Haldex. Speaking of Vauxhalls though, the VXR8 is very nice. Estates are rare though, and not cheap enough for me.

328i - Tempting, I hadn't looked at these before. Not available with xDrive, but since it's only a 2.0, what's the difference mechanically between this and a 320i? And I'm guessing these only come with an open diff?

320i xDrive - tempting, along with the 320d, but circa 180hp is a long way off my current car, and they aren't any lighter. Are they relatively easy to make faster? Did BMW detune them substantially from factory?

Focus ST - I'm sure one of these would do nicely, if rain wasn't such a frequent occurance here. I often have to pull out from a tight junction onto a relatively busy 60mph A-road, and exploiting gaps in traffic is one of the reasons I like fast cars so much. In the wet, I've found that I'm spinning wheels in FWD cars with 100hp or so, so I don't think 200hp+ is going to help.

Octavia VRS - As above. I actually had an Octavia Scout, it is the reason I'm so hesitant to jump into another Haldex car. I must say that I thought the Octavia was a really good car, so long as you weren't the sort of person who enjoyed driving. The newer VRS with the performance pack (the equivelant Golf would be the mk7 GTI Performance) is somewhat tempting, with it's clever front diff, but ultimately it's still FWD.

[LotsOfLaughs]

valiant said:

Two nice Mitsubishi Legnums in AT at the moment.

Bit older than your requirements but look very nice indeed.

These are very old. If I wanted older cars, I'd be spoilt for choice! (WRXs, Legacy GT-B, BMWs, Lexus, Sierras, etc)

[LotsOfLaughs]

lemonslap said:

That s going to be a tough car to replace! I replaced it with a Audi S4 B8 Avant manual, however it felt very nose heavy compared to the subaru and wanted to push wide at the front during spirited driving. At that budget I would be looking towards a BMW as they tend to be more 50/50 weight distribution.

Out of interest, did your S4 have the optional active rear diff? I've read that it makes quite a big difference.
As for a BMW, the E91 and E61s are a bit old, the F31 3.0Ls are only available as autos (I might have seen one 335i sDrive manual) and the 2.0L xDrives are only 320d and 320i, no 325d or 328i xdrives. I've heard so much good about the 330/335d xdrive that I'm almost tempted to fall on my manual sword so to speak, and that would open many more options like the Golf R estate and its cousins (Leon FR, Superb 280 4x4, etc), V6 diesel Mercs, and saving a bit for AMG Mercs, RS6s, and so on (Although those do get into silly running costs)

Chimune said:

Having recently been through a similar thought process from same car (utterly brilliant), I spent some time looking at jaguar sportbrake

If they made an XE sportbrake, I'd be very tempted, but they don't. The XF is quite big, and only sold with a manual with a 4-pot diesel, which given the size and weight of the car, makes it quite slow. There are more powerful ones, with AWD or a V6 (but not both) but again, no manual.

Krikkit said:

Either spend and sort out the one you've got or import a JDM one - £7.5k will probably get a WR Ltd 2.0 twin scroll to the UK

The imports aren't homologated for towing, there's no weight on the V5. That probably wouldn't be a problem, but if I was pulled over or involved in an accident, it's dangerous driving, and I'd be thrown immediately into the deep end of the slurry pit.

[ZX10R NIN]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Thanks - I'll go through these one at a time.
Insignia - I've never driven one, so it might not be fair for me to criticise, but just looking at the specifications, they're very heavy (1930kg kerbweight), and Haldex. Speaking of Vauxhalls though, the VXR8 is very nice. Estates are rare though, and not cheap enough for me.

328i - Tempting, I hadn't looked at these before. Not available with xDrive, but since it's only a 2.0, what's the difference mechanically between this and a 320i? And I'm guessing these only come with an open diff?

320i xDrive - tempting, along with the 320d, but circa 180hp is a long way off my current car, and they aren't any lighter. Are they relatively easy to make faster? Did BMW detune them substantially from factory?

Focus ST - I'm sure one of these would do nicely, if rain wasn't such a frequent occurance here. I often have to pull out from a tight junction onto a relatively busy 60mph A-road, and exploiting gaps in traffic is one of the reasons I like fast cars so much. In the wet, I've found that I'm spinning wheels in FWD cars with 100hp or so, so I don't think 200hp+ is going to help.

Octavia VRS - As above. I actually had an Octavia Scout, it is the reason I'm so hesitant to jump into another Haldex car. I must say that I thought the Octavia was a really good car, so long as you weren't the sort of person who enjoyed driving. The newer VRS with the performance pack (the equivelant Golf would be the mk7 GTI Performance) is somewhat tempting, with it's clever front diff, but ultimately it's still FWD.

The 328i has an open diff but you can buy an LSD (not cheap) you can remap the 20i to around 230-240bhp, the 328i has a better components so they're able to be remapped to a higher.

[PomBstard]

I went from a 2005 Liberty GT wagon to a….

…2012 Liberty GT wagon

Both manual, and both simply superb. The later car wasn’t quite as entertaining but more than matched the earlier car in just about every other metric. Probably the best all-round car I’ve ever owned and had we not outgrown it, I’d still have it.

Funny you mention a VXR wagon as I sold the later Liberty and bought a V8 Holden Commodore wagon…

I also considered various German wagons throughout each buying process and none quite gave me what I was looking for, so I feel your pain.

No idea if any of those later Subarus are available in the UK - I think a lot of the GT wagons are JDM. Might be worth putting money into what you’ve already got and continue enjoying it

[InfamousK]

I had a Legacy Spec B and I also had your very problem...
I went for an Audi S4 B8 with the sports diff at the back, it was very competent but it wasn't as fun as the Legacy and that was with 480bhp. The Legacy felt special with the engine configuration and the low COG up front, with the diff on the S4 it did really improve the turn in compared to a non sport diff'd S4.

In the end got rid of the S4 as I felt something was always about to break and I spent a lot of money chasing an illusive misfire.
The Mrs struggled with the Supersport seats as it was cumbersome getting to our daughter in the back when she would turn around from the front and having two big dogs I was always worried about them scratching the rear bumper getting in and out.

In the end I replaced it with a Range Rover, I haven't looked back since at the Audi but I feel the Audi is the closest vehicle to the Legacy.

My God...she looked good dirty though...

Any questions please ask away.

[LotsOfLaughs]

ZX10R NIN said:

The 328i has an open diff but you can buy an LSD (not cheap) you can remap the 20i to around 230-240bhp, the 328i has a better components so they're able to be remapped to a higher.

How much power could I expect from a mapped 328i?
Which components are different between the 320i and 328i? Just the turbocharger?

PomBstard said:

I went from a 2005 Liberty GT wagon to a .

2012 Liberty GT wagon

Both manual, and both simply superb. The later car wasn t quite as entertaining but more than matched the earlier car in just about every other metric. Probably the best all-round car I ve ever owned and had we not outgrown it, I d still have it.

Funny you mention a VXR wagon as I sold the later Liberty and bought a V8 Holden Commodore wagon

I also considered various German wagons throughout each buying process and none quite gave me what I was looking for, so I feel your pain.

No idea if any of those later Subarus are available in the UK - I think a lot of the GT wagons are JDM. Might be worth putting money into what you ve already got and continue enjoying it

All the Liberty GTs (badged Legacy here, and everywhere but Australia and NZ, iirc) are imported, at least from 2nd or 3rd gen onwards.
I'm not keen on the 5th gens at all, I think they're really ugly, and the interiors aren't as nice. If they were much faster and better to drive than the previous model, I could excuse it, but they aren't.
We did get the VXR8 here, but I've never seen the wagon/estate version.

InfamousK said:

I had a Legacy Spec B and I also had your very problem...
I went for an Audi S4 B8 with the sports diff at the back, it was very competent but it wasn't as fun as the Legacy and that was with 480bhp. The Legacy felt special with the engine configuration and the low COG up front, with the diff on the S4 it did really improve the turn in compared to a non sport diff'd S4.

Was yours the maunal or the DSG?
How did you get 480hp from it? I'm guessing a smaller pulley and a map? Exhaust?
If you were given the choice to drive one for the day, would you choose it over a Legcay?

Thanks all!

[InfamousK]

LotsOfLaughs said:

InfamousK said:

I had a Legacy Spec B and I also had your very problem...
I went for an Audi S4 B8 with the sports diff at the back, it was very competent but it wasn't as fun as the Legacy and that was with 480bhp. The Legacy felt special with the engine configuration and the low COG up front, with the diff on the S4 it did really improve the turn in compared to a non sport diff'd S4.

Was yours the maunal or the DSG?
How did you get 480hp from it? I'm guessing a smaller pulley and a map? Exhaust?
If you were given the choice to drive one for the day, would you choose it over a Legcay?

Thanks all!

Mine was DSG, it had a reduced pulley on it, intake and exhaust and it was mapped by MRC.
I'm fortunate that a good friend bought the Legacy from me and I get to drive it from time to time and it goes down the road so much nicer, breathing with the road surface whereas the Audi feels like it beats the road into submission.
The Audi felt like a much newer car so whenever I drove the Legacy it certainly felt 'old' but you soon get reaccustomed with it. I often look at Legacys for sale, I can't say the same for S4s.

[Davie]

This makes for interesting reading for me... more so as both a Legacy and an S4 are cars that my thoughts seem to constantly gravitate back to however for various reasons, they both remain as thoughts for the time being. It probably stems from running a series of quick (ish) Volvo estates for years and being a bit of a fan of a big, practical car that doesn't scream "look at me" and has a decent amount of performance and is interesting for those who know.

I veered away from said estates last year and bought a Transporter, because the sheer size is handy and I also have an older Volvo estate. I keep toying with replacing one of them... or both. I keep thinking an V6T S4 Avant would be a nice thing to own in place of the van and then I also think that replacing the solid old sheddy Volvo with something that can still do sheddy Volvo style stuff but with a bit more "something" would be good and thus I gravitate towards Legacys.

The Legacy, in Spec B and H6 form I always keep wondering if it'd be enough. I've never really been a fan of big displacement, instead favouring turbo power as the latter always feels quicker, more exciting and so lately I've been browsing import spec turbos... 280ish bhp and a manual box in a car that supposedly drives very well and is quite a solid, dependable thing does appeal. Similarly the S4 appeals for similar reasons, more so if it was mapped which in my eyes would make a very quick tool that is almost invisible.

But, not yet committed to either and not 100% sure why... fear of the unknown perhaps. Don't meet your heros... or probably as the current two main cars do what's needed of them incredibly well but neither are particularly exciting nor engaging... or interesting.

Off to the classifieds again...

[Fastdruid]

I'm in a *very* similar boat.

I have a 2008 Mondeo 2.5T Estate.

Better on fuel than the Legacy, cheaper VED, decent to drive, slightly slower than the Legacy and almost as old. Mine is knocking on for 180k now but I've been considering what to replace it with for years.

My requirements are for an estate that is; petrol, manual, decent to drive, similar size boot, can tow and no slower than the Mondeo.

My list of cars to replace it with is... erm.

Considered an S4 but the newest manual is a 2012 so its not _that_ much newer and 13 years old now. The interior was *much* nicer but although obviously much quicker felt very similar to the Mondeo. It's an Audi, so inevitably going to break and would be more "ruining costs" than "running costs". I just didn't feel it was worth it for how much more it would cost.

The newer Mondeo is auto only. The 3-series Touring is tiny and mostly autos. The 5-series are almost exclusively diesels (and autos). The interesting JDM cars (Stagea, Legnum VR-4 etc) are older and it feels wrong to use them as a daily.

The older Focus ST can't tow. The Golf R Estate would both mean having a his and hers Golf R and from us having a VW I'm not massively enamoured of them. The faster Skodas are auto only. Love the look of the 508sw but auto only (and not meant to be a great driving car). Mazda 6 looks amazing but slow and having had a Mazda previously I don't want to deal with the rust again.

I could probably live with a 2019+ Focus ST but they're much smaller.

I've decided I'm just going to run it until it dies by which time hopefully the kids are old enough to be able to drive themselves and I can get away with a smaller car.

[andy43]

LotsOfLaughs said:

valiant said:

Two nice Mitsubishi Legnums in AT at the moment.

Bit older than your requirements but look very nice indeed.

These are very old. If I wanted older cars, I'd be spoilt for choice! (WRXs, Legacy GT-B, BMWs, Lexus, Sierras, etc)

I went through three turbo Foresters, a Galant/Legnum VR4 and a Legacy over a number of years.
They’re all the performance estate you’d ever need.
Replacing them with something that’s similar isn’t easy but maybe an S4 Avant as above, or an AMG estate of some form - C32 perhaps - but they won’t be 4wd.
Literally can’t think of much else.

[Krikkit]

Fastdruid said:

I've decided I'm just going to run it until it dies by which time hopefully the kids are old enough to be able to drive themselves and I can get away with a smaller car.

Or spend a chunk on getting it back into rude health - a full set of suspension including shocks and springs etc will work wonders.

[Fastdruid]

Krikkit said:

Fastdruid said:

I've decided I'm just going to run it until it dies by which time hopefully the kids are old enough to be able to drive themselves and I can get away with a smaller car.

Or spend a chunk on getting it back into rude health - a full set of suspension including shocks and springs etc will work wonders.

Oh there is nothing "wrong" with it. It drives really well and doesn't feel its age.

I've replaced both front and rear shocks (and springs) on it in the last few years (replaced pretty much all of the rear suspension, both arms, dampers and springs last year).

Just at *some* point it will die (or rather be well beyond economic sense to repair).