Bike throttle bodies vs Zetec EFI

[cps13]

I'm sure this topic has been covered 100 times before but I need some advice please...

I have read some articles which say putting fuel injection into a 7 style kit car is an expensive thing to do. Why is this? What needs changing?

I have a 1999 1.8L zetec engine with the fuel injector attached. Would it be much easier to attach bike throttle bodies with a modified manifold?

Any advice/opinions greatfully received.

Thanks

[JohnEM]

Fuel injection requires high pressure fuel, also a return flow to the tank.
If you run carbs. other things can be simpler, for example no need for an ecu or only a rudimentary one.
Which Zetec are you using?, for the black and Silver topped ones(2000 on) there are a lot parts available.
Adjustable ECU's such as OMEX and off the shelf throttle bodies (Jennevy).
Hope that helps, try Burton power's web site for ford tuning bits.
JohnEM

[cps13]

JohnEM said:

Fuel injection requires high pressure fuel, also a return flow to the tank.

I knew you had to do those things, however this won't require more than a couple of fuel pumps, a filter, a return pipe and a fuel tank with an extra input. Will it?

Cheers.

[RT Phil]

cps13 said:

JohnEM said:

Fuel injection requires high pressure fuel, also a return flow to the tank.

I knew you had to do those things, however this won't require more than a couple of fuel pumps, a filter, a return pipe and a fuel tank with an extra input. Will it?

Cheers.

There are two ways of doing it, you can run a low pressure pump to feed a swirl pot then high pressure pump to the injectors fuel regulator then return to the tank which is they way i did it to start with, or you can put a swirl pot in the tank and just use a high pressure pump which is the way i use now or there are fuel pumps out there that have swirlpots built in, so there are three ways to do it, though the first way is more expensive because you need two pumps and a swirl pot, of course you will need filters as well.

[cps13]

Thanks guys... v.helpful!

I think we will be sticking with the fuel injection. Looking at the costs I can't see there being too much in it by the time I have bought a good quality intake manifold and bike throttle bodies. Fuel injection would be slightly more but i'd prefer that option.

thanks again.

[NeilE]

You might find my throttle body conversion diary worth a read:

www.mymojo.co.uk/mods/mods_throttle_bodies.htm

[Snake the Sniper]

You seem slightly confused about quite what fuel injection is. Both set ups you've mentioned are basically the same thing, with an ECU that controls the sparks and the injector timings, somewhere for the injectors to sit and a throttle to let the air in. The main differences are the ability to adjust the bike gear to do exactly what you want, not what Ford wanted and the bike gear generally being better for power, and quite possibly fuel economy. You will need some form of fuel injection anyway, as it will be required to get your engine/car through it's IVA, along with a catalytic converter (IIRC you're building ATM not modifying, yes?).
Have you been over to www.locostbuilders.co.uk? If not, have a search round and I'm sure you will find answer to questions you haven't even thought of yet!

[rhinochopig]

Bogg Bros do a bike carb conversion kits - a friend has a V8 westy with bike carbs which he uses for Hill Climbs which I think uses their kit. I would imagine they do a TB conversion as well. Try calling them.

[cps13]

Snake the Sniper said:

You seem slightly confused about quite what fuel injection is.

Sorry its me not explaining myself very well... I meant the diference between using the standard ford setup which is already there and the bike conversion.

Good point about the power and fuel consumption tho, I hadn't thought of that!

[Mr2Mike]

cps13 said:

Snake the Sniper said:

You seem slightly confused about quite what fuel injection is.

Sorry its me not explaining myself very well... I meant the diference between using the standard ford setup which is already there and the bike conversion.

Good point about the power and fuel consumption tho, I hadn't thought of that!

Don't forget you need to budget for an after-market ECU and the cost of mapping it (unless going for DIY option).

[Comadis]

i would go the original ford route:

if you sourced the engine from a donor vehicle you have everything what you need (complete fuel injection, wiring, ecu, ignition, lambda probe).

and believe me: ford (also all other car manufacturers) have invested plenty of money in developping engines and injection systems which perform well and economical.

also the poweroutput will be better than converting it to weber-, bike-carbs or similar things.

people telling you for example: Zetec+45webers=20bhp gain is bull sh..

as most people who go the carburator route do not have the possiblity to compare before and after the conversion they think their car has gained power (especially as the induction roar pretends to make you believe you have more power).

most of the cars which have been converted fromt original injection to carbs definately have lost power!!

a differnt thing is using race approved injection systems as e.g. jenvey throttle bodies...you gain power but you have to pay a high price for that.

Edited by Comadis on Tuesday 18th August 13:25

[NeilE]

Comadis said:

people telling you for example: Zetec+45webers=20bhp gain is bull sh..

I beg to differ...

There are *plenty* of kit cars out there with 1.8 and 2.0 zetecs with rolling road printouts to prove power outputs. It is generally accepted that a standard 1.8 (with 2.0 or '130' spec cams) + webers should give ~150bhp and a 2.0 ~160bhp.

Throttle bodies give similar power to carbs with improved drivability and economy. There is no reason why a well thought out motorcycle throttle bodies installation should be any less powerful than a Jenvey install - they are after all very simple devices!

[Snake the Sniper]

But the thing you've overlooked Comadis, is that what Ford want the engine to do and what the kit car owner/driver wants are not quite the same thing. Ford will be conservative on ignition timing and fuelling, as they need the engine to last many thousands of miles. The kit car owner tends not to give a monkeys about long engine life, as these cars do relatively few miles. They may well also need to account for varying fuels, service life and so on. Personally, I wouldn't bother putting Webbers or any carbs on a new(ish) engine, as it may make MOTs and the like difficult in the future. Not everyone has a kit car friendly garage to go to, and as such may have a very strict emissions test each year, which a post-'95 Zetec will need injection at least to pass. Having some form of after market set up also allows future upgrades to be catered for much more easily. Many of the popular set ups can be tuned with nothing more than a laptop and suitable adaptor for a lamda probe.