Small Engine - Haynes/Locost

[Little Geoff]

I am just starting a Haynes project and am looking to build with a small engine say 1100/1200 cc. The reason for this is my 16 year old daughter is my co-builder and I was thinking a small engine would be more appropriate for her first couple of years of driving and would be cheaper on insurance.

I have been offered an old MG midget for next to nothing so would have an engine and gearbox for very little money. Can anyone offer any advice as to the pro's and con's of going down this route ??

Please no suggestions of restoring the Midget, that was two projects ago - don't want to do another.

[thescamper]

I know that one of the original Ron Champion students built his car with a 1098 morris minor engine, which made quite a nice car. Its never going to set the world on fire with a 1275 midget engine but they are tuneable in an old school way.

Of course it does depend what you intend to use the car for. If its for sundays when the weather is nice then the midget would be fine. Even the odd track or airfield would be OK.

If it was me I would be looking at a possible up-grade path and possible options would be an 1100 K series metro engine which could utilise the ford 5 speed, then you could upgrade to an 1400, 1600 or 1800 VVC.

Or the other option is to go ford with the baby zetec which would allow an upgrade path to the bigger zetecs using the same gearbox.

[Chris71]

Little Geoff said:

I am just starting a Haynes project and am looking to build with a small engine say 1100/1200 cc. The reason for this is my 16 year old daughter is my co-builder and I was thinking a small engine would be more appropriate for her first couple of years of driving and would be cheaper on insurance.

I have been offered an old MG midget for next to nothing so would have an engine and gearbox for very little money. Can anyone offer any advice as to the pro's and con's of going down this route ??

Please no suggestions of restoring the Midget, that was two projects ago - don't want to do another.

Have you got any insurance quotes yet? You may find - assuming they'll cover a 17/18 year old - that they're surprisingly good and not too heavily influenced by the capacity. Some kit insurers don't look at the capacity/performance at all and just go on age and value of the car.

Back to the original question I'd say small and light - maybe one of the recent Fiesta powerplants if you can source a RWD bellhousing?

[Mr2Mike]

If you don't mind deviating from the standard Haynes design slightly you can use an awful lot of parts from a midget, front uprights, steering rack, rear axle etc.

I'd be a bit sad scrapping a 1275 Midget though

[Comadis]

also keep in mind that if you want to sell the car in the future you wont get much money, due to the small engine.

what´s about a 1400 rover or zetec? still too big?

[singlecoil]

Comadis said:

also keep in mind that if you want to sell the car in the future you wont get much money, due to the small engine.

what´s about a 1400 rover or zetec? still too big?

On the other hand, if you use the engine and gearbox from the Midget the car won't cost very much in the first place! It's when you have to start buying special bellhousings and clutches etc etc is when the price to build starts to go up, and you never get it back

[Chris71]

Comadis said:

What about a 1400 rover?

An excellent suggestion! Great little engine and they're used in Caterhams so there's no shortage of RWD hardware.

I would still say check the insurance premiums before you worry too much about it though - you might have a pleasant surprise. My first car (admittedly at 19) was a 1.6-litre kit car and that cost me £300 a year to insure 7 years ago. Even then my friends were paying £600 for the usual Fiestas and 106s.

[Mr2Mike]

Chris71 said:

Comadis said:

What about a 1400 rover?

An excellent suggestion! Great little engine and they're used in Caterhams so there's no shortage of RWD hardware.

No shortage perhaps, but it's not a cheap engine to fit.

[CDP]

If you're going to do it with a small engine why not build something that can be easily be converted to 750mc spec?

www.750mc.co.uk

That way you can enter some races too...

[Comadis]

above i named the Zetec.

i meant the "small" 1400 Zetec, as used in a Focus or Fiesta.

[Auntieroll]

Little Geoff said:

I am just starting a Haynes project and am looking to build with a small engine say 1100/1200 cc. The reason for this is my 16 year old daughter is my co-builder and I was thinking a small engine would be more appropriate for her first couple of years of driving and would be cheaper on insurance.

I have been offered an old MG midget for next to nothing so would have an engine and gearbox for very little money. Can anyone offer any advice as to the pro's and con's of going down this route ??

Please no suggestions of restoring the Midget, that was two projects ago - don't want to do another.

If you go the Spridget route it would be worth taking a look at an early Westfield Eleven as they used the same running gear,best thing for a rusty Spridget IMHO!!
As long as the engine isn't tuned too much the gearboxes last reasonably well,the lack of first gear synchro could be a minor stumbling block though.
If you do tire of the small engine you can always fit another one at a later date ,this single donor route avoids buying special adaptor plates,manifolds etc; which keeps costs down.

The real world (road) performance will be acceptable bearing in mind the intended use of the finished project,your daughter will also learn loads of useful skills as well,after working on her project my daughter can now make the neatest brake pipes I have ever seen!

Good luck with your project.

[Little Geoff]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all of your responses - its given me lots to think about - perhaps more than I had expected, but that's a good thing. Still in the early stages of planning so all responses received gratefully.

[CDP]

I'd suggest you think very carefully before deciding on your kit just because you've got a cheap midget. Remember this donor is probably already in need of a complete mechanical rebuild which can easily wipe out those savings.

Work out what your new car needs to do and chose the donor accordingly. This is especially important if an obscure donor means you have to buy or make expensive adapters while a more common donor simply involves off the shelf parts.

[Roman]

Sounds like a good donor (if the body is rotten) and I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done before. Worth searching www.locostbuilders.co.uk

You'd be able to use so many parts of your donor with little or no modification saving a lot of time and money; engine & gearbox, steering, suspension (depending on design) hubs, brakes, wheels, loom, gauges, wipers, heater etc. Even replacement items are relatively inexpensive and easy to find.

I suppose you could alter the dimensions of the book car to suit the donor cars track and wheelbase as well to simplify the build.

[singlecoil]

Roman said:

I suppose you could alter the dimensions of the book car to suit the donor cars track and wheelbase as well to simplify the build.

The Spridget's engine is fitted between the front wheels, whereas in a seven it's behind the front wheels, so maybe the track can be matched but not the wheelbase.