Palmersport - anything better?
Discussion
Hello all,
Having decided earlier this year to do my first PalmerSport day and enjoying it immensely, I am now wondering if "that's all". Is there anything better in terms of "rental" circuit driving?
The only thing I can think of is perhaps something like ice driving up in Scandanavia, but that's not really what I'm talking about (I love the JP-LM and Formula Jaguar cars at Palmersport for the slicks and downforce aspect).
Thoughts?
C
Having decided earlier this year to do my first PalmerSport day and enjoying it immensely, I am now wondering if "that's all". Is there anything better in terms of "rental" circuit driving?
The only thing I can think of is perhaps something like ice driving up in Scandanavia, but that's not really what I'm talking about (I love the JP-LM and Formula Jaguar cars at Palmersport for the slicks and downforce aspect).
Thoughts?
C
Im not aware of anything better tbh. I think Silverstone do a similar day, but its not that easy to find details for some odd reason.
Dont know if its still going, but I heard good things about Topcats racing experience days too.
Palmersport cannot be beaten for pure professionalism I dont think.
Dont know if its still going, but I heard good things about Topcats racing experience days too.
Palmersport cannot be beaten for pure professionalism I dont think.
Havent done a Palmersport event myself however i know quite a few people who done Palmersport & other days as well.
From what i have been told nothing comes close to Palmersport events from the minute you arrive the minute you leave.
My ex-boss did four or five events & said he not had a great deal of fun but also that he had learned an awful lot.
From what i have been told nothing comes close to Palmersport events from the minute you arrive the minute you leave.
My ex-boss did four or five events & said he not had a great deal of fun but also that he had learned an awful lot.
I've done Palmersport a few times and also been over to the Swedish lakes. They are very different things, but if you have any petrol in your veins, you can't help but have fun with either of them.
I have a lot of friends that work at Palmersport and in fairness, they mostly love it too!
I have a lot of friends that work at Palmersport and in fairness, they mostly love it too!
freedman said:
That's really helpful - thanks 
C
woof said:
Yep - get yourself into racing proper !
Plenty of good series out there to get into
It's interesting, I've thought about that a little but other than doing an ARDS to get an MSA license, I don't really know what's available in terms of buying drives in various cars, or indeed what the costs and level of competition are like. There are so many series and formulae it's quite hard to know where to start.Plenty of good series out there to get into
Earlier this year I met a PHer at a Palmersport day who took to racing fairly late in life, in things like the VLN 24h, and his experiences sort of piqued my interest in proper cars (along with the fun of downforce/slicks cars on Palmersport's West circuit).
I've done a small amount of running with things like Rotax Max on Vega SL6 (ie. Proper Sticky) tyres, and the way they corner at lower speeds is comparable. The higher speed stuff when you can feel the downforce working in the Formula Palmer Jag and JPLM is on another level, and is quite addictive.
I kart most weekends (have done for more than 10 years), as well as racing in the EKL and in EPEC (both karting championships) this year. I've done Club100, inkart, DMax and various other things over the last few years. In the categories were it was a fair fight (that is, the ones where I'm not miles over the weight limit, rather just a bit over it) I've been pretty competitive. I've no idea how or if that would translate to cars.
It's all rental racing: I have the sort of work/life mix that doesn't lend itself to planning all that well, which is the main reason I never bought a kart and van to do the owner/driver touring thing.
The thing I enjoy the most is not actually mixing it up with others in a race (possibly that's because of the nutters I sometimes find myself racing - the sort of people who will T-bone you on purpose to get ahead).
I love running hard against the clock, looking for improvements on each lap.
Palmersport's a bit of fun really. I like the massive runoff, and the last two corners of the lap are a bit "yee-hah!" (if you've done a PS day I hope you will know what I'm talking about).
Anyone know what it'd cost to test something like one of the junior formula cars? (Thinking stuff like Formula Renault 2.0 or similar)
C
I'd agree with those saying Palmersport cannot be matched. I've done quite a lot, and nothing is even remotely comparable, save perhaps for Silverstone's full-day ARDS course which obviously has different objectives but was still an excellent day. As a student, Palmersport is a save-up-all-year-for event for me, but worth it thrice over.
The only way you'll get more is by going racing, though I could not tell you that you'll get better value! I'm planning to go into Production BMW next season, which would stand me in the region of £12k to buy a decent prepped car and run a full season. Formula Renault as you mention.. A season there is likely to be in the £50-60k range to be up front, if what I've heard is correct. Look at the new BRDC Formula 4 if slicks and wings are your thing - this is touted as being more like £20-30k for a competitive entry.
The only way you'll get more is by going racing, though I could not tell you that you'll get better value! I'm planning to go into Production BMW next season, which would stand me in the region of £12k to buy a decent prepped car and run a full season. Formula Renault as you mention.. A season there is likely to be in the £50-60k range to be up front, if what I've heard is correct. Look at the new BRDC Formula 4 if slicks and wings are your thing - this is touted as being more like £20-30k for a competitive entry.
furtive said:
Better in what way? Faster cars? More exotic cars? More track time?
Yep, those sorts of things.I'm not bothered with the looks of a car (I wouldn't pay £20 to have a drive in a veyron, for example), I'm much more interested in track time (probably >30mins at a stretch) and the fun of driving something compeitive. A rickety looking car that drove nicely would be fine by me.
Probably not worth talking about things that cost >£10K a year since I don't want to spend that, although it's academically interesting to know what's available.
C
Fair enough. If you drive the car to events (which some do), or do half or two-thirds of a season and a few trackdays to fill up your time, Production BMW could easily be done within £10k all in. My budget above is absolutely inclusive, has everything from fuel travelling to events to my personal safety kit, and right down to oil changes.
I guess it depends whether you're looking for more car, or more action - E30 320is are never gonna set the world alight, but despite the brilliance of Palmersport, its cars and its instructors, it's still not racing and that's why I'm doing PBMW!
I guess it depends whether you're looking for more car, or more action - E30 320is are never gonna set the world alight, but despite the brilliance of Palmersport, its cars and its instructors, it's still not racing and that's why I'm doing PBMW!
drakart said:
I've done Palmersport a few times and also been over to the Swedish lakes. They are very different things, but if you have any petrol in your veins, you can't help but have fun with either of them.
I have a lot of friends that work at Palmersport and in fairness, they mostly love it too!
Swedish lakes I have a lot of friends that work at Palmersport and in fairness, they mostly love it too!
Head to Åre for maximum Porsche fun...
There's a massive difference between a trackday and a race day.
and it's a good difference
I do use trackdays occasionally - you tend to get more track time, which is really helpful when yr trying different setups. But the level of driving, speed, skill etc is probably half of what you would find on a test day/race day.
Of course that's a sweeping generalisation !
It doesn't mean that track drivers aren't as good - but on a race day yr pushing at 100% - on a track day your probably only driving at 50-60% of what's actually achievable. I've taken good drivers out who thought they were flat out. Then you take them to the next level
There's so much good racing to choose from.
First off you have to get your ARDS licence - then you can looks at arrive and drive options
Stock hatch in 750MC is a good place or you could look at the Caterham Academy (which you can't go wrong with. They will take you through the ARDs as well)
A few years old but EVO's guide is pretty good
http://www.evo.co.uk/trackdays/features/234356/how...
And the BRSCC have this as well
http://www.brscc.co.uk/How-to-go-racing/How-to-go-...
Regards to single seaters - not sure how old you are but single seaters are a young persons game and it's an expensive game. There's lots to break off a purpose built race car. And i would honestly say you would be wasting yr money going into it. That's not to say you could get some experience doing something else and then run in monoposto series later on. But as I type that you could look at Formula Jedi - it's actually what I started in 15 years ago - did 4 races - came last in all of them ! Then moved on to Caterhams for a few years after that
Feel free to ask questions
Earlier this year I met a PHer at a Palmersport day who took to racing fairly late in life, in things like the VLN 24h, and his experiences sort of piqued my interest in proper cars (along with the fun of downforce/slicks cars on Palmersport's West circuit).
I've done a small amount of running with things like Rotax Max on Vega SL6 (ie. Proper Sticky) tyres, and the way they corner at lower speeds is comparable. The higher speed stuff when you can feel the downforce working in the Formula Palmer Jag and JPLM is on another level, and is quite addictive.
I kart most weekends (have done for more than 10 years), as well as racing in the EKL and in EPEC (both karting championships) this year. I've done Club100, inkart, DMax and various other things over the last few years. In the categories were it was a fair fight (that is, the ones where I'm not miles over the weight limit, rather just a bit over it) I've been pretty competitive. I've no idea how or if that would translate to cars.
It's all rental racing: I have the sort of work/life mix that doesn't lend itself to planning all that well, which is the main reason I never bought a kart and van to do the owner/driver touring thing.
The thing I enjoy the most is not actually mixing it up with others in a race (possibly that's because of the nutters I sometimes find myself racing - the sort of people who will T-bone you on purpose to get ahead).
I love running hard against the clock, looking for improvements on each lap.
Palmersport's a bit of fun really. I like the massive runoff, and the last two corners of the lap are a bit "yee-hah!" (if you've done a PS day I hope you will know what I'm talking about).
Anyone know what it'd cost to test something like one of the junior formula cars? (Thinking stuff like Formula Renault 2.0 or similar)
C
and it's a good difference
I do use trackdays occasionally - you tend to get more track time, which is really helpful when yr trying different setups. But the level of driving, speed, skill etc is probably half of what you would find on a test day/race day.
Of course that's a sweeping generalisation !
It doesn't mean that track drivers aren't as good - but on a race day yr pushing at 100% - on a track day your probably only driving at 50-60% of what's actually achievable. I've taken good drivers out who thought they were flat out. Then you take them to the next level
There's so much good racing to choose from.
First off you have to get your ARDS licence - then you can looks at arrive and drive options
Stock hatch in 750MC is a good place or you could look at the Caterham Academy (which you can't go wrong with. They will take you through the ARDs as well)
A few years old but EVO's guide is pretty good
http://www.evo.co.uk/trackdays/features/234356/how...
And the BRSCC have this as well
http://www.brscc.co.uk/How-to-go-racing/How-to-go-...
Regards to single seaters - not sure how old you are but single seaters are a young persons game and it's an expensive game. There's lots to break off a purpose built race car. And i would honestly say you would be wasting yr money going into it. That's not to say you could get some experience doing something else and then run in monoposto series later on. But as I type that you could look at Formula Jedi - it's actually what I started in 15 years ago - did 4 races - came last in all of them ! Then moved on to Caterhams for a few years after that
Feel free to ask questions
CraigyMc said:
woof said:
Yep - get yourself into racing proper !
Plenty of good series out there to get into
It's interesting, I've thought about that a little but other than doing an ARDS to get an MSA license, I don't really know what's available in terms of buying drives in various cars, or indeed what the costs and level of competition are like. There are so many series and formulae it's quite hard to know where to start.Plenty of good series out there to get into
Earlier this year I met a PHer at a Palmersport day who took to racing fairly late in life, in things like the VLN 24h, and his experiences sort of piqued my interest in proper cars (along with the fun of downforce/slicks cars on Palmersport's West circuit).
I've done a small amount of running with things like Rotax Max on Vega SL6 (ie. Proper Sticky) tyres, and the way they corner at lower speeds is comparable. The higher speed stuff when you can feel the downforce working in the Formula Palmer Jag and JPLM is on another level, and is quite addictive.
I kart most weekends (have done for more than 10 years), as well as racing in the EKL and in EPEC (both karting championships) this year. I've done Club100, inkart, DMax and various other things over the last few years. In the categories were it was a fair fight (that is, the ones where I'm not miles over the weight limit, rather just a bit over it) I've been pretty competitive. I've no idea how or if that would translate to cars.
It's all rental racing: I have the sort of work/life mix that doesn't lend itself to planning all that well, which is the main reason I never bought a kart and van to do the owner/driver touring thing.
The thing I enjoy the most is not actually mixing it up with others in a race (possibly that's because of the nutters I sometimes find myself racing - the sort of people who will T-bone you on purpose to get ahead).
I love running hard against the clock, looking for improvements on each lap.
Palmersport's a bit of fun really. I like the massive runoff, and the last two corners of the lap are a bit "yee-hah!" (if you've done a PS day I hope you will know what I'm talking about).
Anyone know what it'd cost to test something like one of the junior formula cars? (Thinking stuff like Formula Renault 2.0 or similar)
C
Edited by woof on Wednesday 3rd July 15:41
CraigyMc said:
Yep, those sorts of things.
I'm not bothered with the looks of a car (I wouldn't pay £20 to have a drive in a veyron, for example), I'm much more interested in track time (probably >30mins at a stretch) and the fun of driving something compeitive. A rickety looking car that drove nicely would be fine by me.
Probably not worth talking about things that cost >£10K a year since I don't want to spend that, although it's academically interesting to know what's available.
C
If it's just more track time you want, hiring a Caterham with someone like Bookatrack at an open pitlane event is going to give you the most bang for your buck. You only need to stop for fuel for the car or yourself all day.I'm not bothered with the looks of a car (I wouldn't pay £20 to have a drive in a veyron, for example), I'm much more interested in track time (probably >30mins at a stretch) and the fun of driving something compeitive. A rickety looking car that drove nicely would be fine by me.
Probably not worth talking about things that cost >£10K a year since I don't want to spend that, although it's academically interesting to know what's available.
C
That's not a bad idea.
Think the cost is about £1000 for hire and trackday. Also I think they'll put you in with an instructor as well.
Think the cost is about £1000 for hire and trackday. Also I think they'll put you in with an instructor as well.
furtive said:
CraigyMc said:
Yep, those sorts of things.
I'm not bothered with the looks of a car (I wouldn't pay £20 to have a drive in a veyron, for example), I'm much more interested in track time (probably >30mins at a stretch) and the fun of driving something compeitive. A rickety looking car that drove nicely would be fine by me.
Probably not worth talking about things that cost >£10K a year since I don't want to spend that, although it's academically interesting to know what's available.
C
If it's just more track time you want, hiring a Caterham with someone like Bookatrack at an open pitlane event is going to give you the most bang for your buck. You only need to stop for fuel for the car or yourself all day.I'm not bothered with the looks of a car (I wouldn't pay £20 to have a drive in a veyron, for example), I'm much more interested in track time (probably >30mins at a stretch) and the fun of driving something compeitive. A rickety looking car that drove nicely would be fine by me.
Probably not worth talking about things that cost >£10K a year since I don't want to spend that, although it's academically interesting to know what's available.
C
woof said:
That's not a bad idea.
Think the cost is about £1000 for hire and trackday. Also I think they'll put you in with an instructor as well.
Instructors are a bit hit and miss with me anyway (I'd rather learn and make my own mistakes, unless I'm actually dangerous).Think the cost is about £1000 for hire and trackday. Also I think they'll put you in with an instructor as well.
furtive said:
CraigyMc said:
Yep, those sorts of things.
I'm not bothered with the looks of a car (I wouldn't pay £20 to have a drive in a veyron, for example), I'm much more interested in track time (probably >30mins at a stretch) and the fun of driving something compeitive. A rickety looking car that drove nicely would be fine by me.
Probably not worth talking about things that cost >£10K a year since I don't want to spend that, although it's academically interesting to know what's available.
C
If it's just more track time you want, hiring a Caterham with someone like Bookatrack at an open pitlane event is going to give you the most bang for your buck. You only need to stop for fuel for the car or yourself all day.I'm not bothered with the looks of a car (I wouldn't pay £20 to have a drive in a veyron, for example), I'm much more interested in track time (probably >30mins at a stretch) and the fun of driving something compeitive. A rickety looking car that drove nicely would be fine by me.
Probably not worth talking about things that cost >£10K a year since I don't want to spend that, although it's academically interesting to know what's available.
C
I'll talk to Jonny at b@t to see what's what.
C
CraigyMc said:
Instructors are a bit hit and miss with me anyway (I'd rather learn and make my own mistakes, unless I'm actually dangerous).
I'll talk to Jonny at b@t to see what's what.
C
You might be surprised, as regards instructors. I agree that they're hit and miss, and you should most definitely only take ones that come well recommended, but the amount of track day drivers I've seen who reckon they're flat out and are then taken to a complete other level by a good instructor is amazing.I'll talk to Jonny at b@t to see what's what.
C
Not saying you're slow, you must understand
and trying things out to find what suits your personal style is invaluable, but the value of a good instructor is hard to overstate!djmotorsport said:
As you are both going on Aug 1st, you can have a proper chin wag about this :-)
McSam: I'm not experienced enough in cars to be fast, and I have had pretty decent tuition but in my experience the hit rate for "I can work this this person" versus "this instructor is a tool" is about 1:4 (PalmerSport aside, where I've only had a bad experience with one instructor).
C
Edited by CraigyMc on Wednesday 10th July 20:10
Speed Matters | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff