F1 turbo engines and anti-lag systems
Discussion
Having seen this and someones comment about the proposed new F1 engine it has got me thinking....
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Would F1 cars run anti-lag when they have the turbo engines and if not why not?
Is it due to the way they are used as where a rally car is constantly on and off throttle as where an F1/circuit car has much more defined areas of acceleration and the driver can anticipate the lag and compensate accordingly?
Certainly anti-lag would make them fun and noisy, especially if they were spitting flames!
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Would F1 cars run anti-lag when they have the turbo engines and if not why not?
Is it due to the way they are used as where a rally car is constantly on and off throttle as where an F1/circuit car has much more defined areas of acceleration and the driver can anticipate the lag and compensate accordingly?
Certainly anti-lag would make them fun and noisy, especially if they were spitting flames!
If the move to the turbos is a green one then I think any manufacturer would struggle to justify dumping a load of unburnt fuel into the engine, for a performance gain ( I for one like the idea of turbos, I currently drive a 1.6 straight 4 turbo ) but that's what the greenies will say
I very much doubt you'd see anything like the rally car systems - it's pretty crude and murder on components, and I like to think the F1 bods can come up with far more sophisticated means of keeping them on boost, like intelligent VNTs etc, as opposed to dumping a load of fuel through it. Obviously they want super fast spool and boost to be instant, but I can't see them having much trouble given the rev ranges we're talking. F1 Contractor would be the chap to ask I suspect!
t.F1 Contractor said:
A lot of predictions but nobody has got it correct yet.... stop thinking so archaic and limited.
People still seem to think that the F1 turbo engines are goin to be a tuned up Escort RS Turbo lump or something equally old hat.
"Archaic" you say? I suspect we're look at compound and differential turbochargers. This was cutting-edge in about 1950. Since then everything from the Napier Nomad through to Scania trucks have made use of many of the techniques.People still seem to think that the F1 turbo engines are goin to be a tuned up Escort RS Turbo lump or something equally old hat.
It is novel, however, in cars. But, not for the first time, cars don't turn out to be especially leading-edge in engine technology. They're usually a little ahead of aircraft piston engines, but that's largely because aircraft manufacturers tend to favour keeping-on-going above most other things, since it tends to be synonymous with keeping-on-up.
Of course, the natural extension of all of the supercharging and turbocharging is to, eventually, suggest dropping the piston-based component in the middle, since it will eventually just become an (inefficient) gas generator.
Now, I'm sure that the manner of achieving the results, in terms of the materials and engineering behind them, will be cutting-edge, but I'd be very surprised if the ideas themselves are at all new.
deveng said:
A company called torotrak have done a lot of work on a CVT turbo which would always be on boost! It's probably not necessary because of the rev bands the engines are likely to operate in.
That would basically be a Harrier auxilliary drive from the 1960s/70s, in principle. BTG licensed the patents for IIRC low-power applications to Lucas Aerospace; anything larger stayed with what is now Torotrak.F1 already has the technology to solve this. The blown diffusers rely upon a constant exhaust pressure to make sure the car doesn't fall off the road when under braking. Somehow or other the engineers already know how to keep the exhaust blowing, which will be enough to keep the turbo spinning.
Excellent - so many options.
The only hope now is when the FIA / Teams make the rules they allow sufficient scope for several different solutions as that way we'll get a couple of seasons of unpredictable form until the usual convergence on the best solution and the usual teams back at the top.
Still, saying that, the last few seasons haven't been bad.
The only hope now is when the FIA / Teams make the rules they allow sufficient scope for several different solutions as that way we'll get a couple of seasons of unpredictable form until the usual convergence on the best solution and the usual teams back at the top.
Still, saying that, the last few seasons haven't been bad.
Some Gump said:
IMO turbo used not for ompression, but to power an electric supercharger - so car always on boost.
Obviously, I've ignored all losses due to electriity generation =)
What's the advantage of that over what I suggested a couple of posts ago: an electically driven turbocharger? That way, they'd be able to power the turbo to the requirement of the car and driver, rather than have to rely of boost when it's available from the exhaust. They could even dump boost into blown aero devices if they wanted to. Obviously, I've ignored all losses due to electriity generation =)
Assuming any of this is permitted by the rules.
I can see it's a great technical challenge, but I think it will be a massive retrograde step in terms of the visceral experience of those enthusiasts who actually bother to attend Grands Prix.
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