Can Button "Race"?
Discussion
It seemed at bit unfair on Both Vettel and Hamilton under the circumstances, not to have this thread running.
Let the fun begin
I loved the comment in one of the other threads. He can only get 80% out of a 90% car.
On "his" day with a fully hooked up car that is to his liking I'd say he is almost a podium cert. His commitment and racecraft have been I think unfairly critiscised - he can make decisive passes and proved it in his championship season with Brawn, and again this year.
A great balance to the current McLaren opposite number - he hasn't been torn to shreds as many on PH wagered. He seems to have taken on the role of team statesman whilst Hamilton has wrestled with his emotions/head so far this year.
I'd say he is the best in-cockpit strategist - and for this alone, along with his sympathetic style on the current Pirelli tyres, he gets my vote as one of the best driver's of the current generation
. No hand holding required with Button -- very much his own decision maker...
Let the fun begin
I loved the comment in one of the other threads. He can only get 80% out of a 90% car.
On "his" day with a fully hooked up car that is to his liking I'd say he is almost a podium cert. His commitment and racecraft have been I think unfairly critiscised - he can make decisive passes and proved it in his championship season with Brawn, and again this year.
A great balance to the current McLaren opposite number - he hasn't been torn to shreds as many on PH wagered. He seems to have taken on the role of team statesman whilst Hamilton has wrestled with his emotions/head so far this year.
I'd say he is the best in-cockpit strategist - and for this alone, along with his sympathetic style on the current Pirelli tyres, he gets my vote as one of the best driver's of the current generation
. No hand holding required with Button -- very much his own decision maker...Of course he can race. Look at the outside overtake not 2 races ago. Look at Canada. Yes, the BrWn was superb at the beginning of the season, but so is the Redbull, Mansells Renault, and so on. His results last year, and this have been good, and debatable on par with his teammate, who is considered the better racer.
Tis a silly question.
Tis a silly question.
Pearcyy said:
But Jenson had a massive car advantage for the first half of the season with only barichello for competition and he still made that hard work.
As was said at the time, the Brawn was the fastest car for the first 3 races. After that they weren't the fastest, but JB wrung the neck of the car and capitalised on other people's mistakes.Australia, Malaysia, Monaco and Italy were the only races where the Brawn was clearly dominant. The other wins and places that won JB the championship were due to his racecraft and strategy "on the hoof".
I personally rate Singapore 2009 as one of his best ever drives. He dragged that car around and got it in a position that it shouldn't have been in. That race was pivotal in the championship.
So yes, JB can race. His racecraft is probably better than Vettel's, but he has had an extra 6-7 years to practice it. His racecraft is probably on a par with Hamilton's, but he is less spontaneous. He thinks about a move, he doesn't just go for it and hope (Rosberg at Valencia is excluded from that statement).
No doubt what I have said will be abhorrent to some, but it's an opinion.
The elephant in the room on all these threads is that the one thing everyone agrees on is the best car is what keeps winning championships.
As not one if these drivers woke up one morning to find themselves in F1, they rose through lower classes, the debate in whether they can race is moot.
The thread titles should perhaps be: Can the Red Bull/Mclaren race/overtake/brake late/run in a slipstream etc?
There is so little dependent purely on the drivers, that it will soon barely be worth debating thier skills as a deciding factor in anything other than their ability to attract or repel sponsorship.
As not one if these drivers woke up one morning to find themselves in F1, they rose through lower classes, the debate in whether they can race is moot.
The thread titles should perhaps be: Can the Red Bull/Mclaren race/overtake/brake late/run in a slipstream etc?
There is so little dependent purely on the drivers, that it will soon barely be worth debating thier skills as a deciding factor in anything other than their ability to attract or repel sponsorship.
Reardy Mister said:
There is so little dependent purely on the drivers, that it will soon barely be worth debating thier skills as a deciding factor in anything other than their ability to attract or repel sponsorship.
Totally disagree. There is so much a driver can do to make a difference. This point is proven by looking at the relative performances of the team-mates in each race throughout the season. If they were only good for garnering sponsorship, they would finish the drivers championship in the order of: Team 1 in the WCC drivers 1st and 2nd
Team 2 in the WCCdrivers 3rd and 4th
Team 3 in the WCC drivers 5th and 6th etc.
This hasn't ever happened to my recollection.
Nick3point2 said:
Yes, of course he can. He spent a long time in the midfield and learned a lot!
But can he get the very most out of a car? No. Best single lap? No. Vettel and Hamilton have him absolutely licked on qualifying pace and being able to "turn it up to 11".
Can't get the best out of car? I'd say yes, he can. Best single lap? In race mode, or does only qualifying count? As for being able to turn it up to 11... Canada again is being forgotten? But can he get the very most out of a car? No. Best single lap? No. Vettel and Hamilton have him absolutely licked on qualifying pace and being able to "turn it up to 11".
As said on the other thread, the fastest guy in the 2nd half of the race currently is invariably Button. It *seems* that the was he plays it is to conserve for the first half when the car isnt at its most feelsome for him and the tyres are all on spec for everybody, then as the cars start to lighten up and the tyres degrade over their stints and towards the end of the races BJ starts to pile on the speed.
Where he isnt happy is driving round problems or adopting his style on the hoof.
Where he isnt happy is driving round problems or adopting his style on the hoof.
I do think he is a bit more sensitive to car setup, but that is different to being able to race. He is a racer, or that there is no doubt. As a fan of his, it can be frustrating to see him languish in a car that obviously doesn't suit, or isn't set up right, but, like being an Everton fan, when he is on fire it is superb to watch.
All of these (can he race) threads are garbage!!!!
None of us are worthy enough to judge any of these drivers!!I hate fool's doing these threads like Hamilton,Vettel and now Button, of course all these mentioned can race its why they are all World Champions, just because whenever one of the 3 have a below par race everyone jumps on the bandwagon and slate them!!Just for instance Vettel won at Monza in 2008 in a toro rosso!!Hamilton won in Fuji in 2008 when his double world champion alonso crashed and Button won in Hungary in 2006 in lets face it the unreliable Honda!So stop the bashing and lets enjoy these soon to be legneds race there ways into the history books!!Rant over!
None of us are worthy enough to judge any of these drivers!!I hate fool's doing these threads like Hamilton,Vettel and now Button, of course all these mentioned can race its why they are all World Champions, just because whenever one of the 3 have a below par race everyone jumps on the bandwagon and slate them!!Just for instance Vettel won at Monza in 2008 in a toro rosso!!Hamilton won in Fuji in 2008 when his double world champion alonso crashed and Button won in Hungary in 2006 in lets face it the unreliable Honda!So stop the bashing and lets enjoy these soon to be legneds race there ways into the history books!!Rant over!
heebeegeetee said:
Yes he can race. I like Jenson, and I like the fact that he just makes so few mistakes in the car.
His overall performances do seem to be inconsistent though, with last Sunday's performance being especially bad.
I'm enjoying watching his time at McL though.
+1. I have alot of time for Jenson but he can be very frustrating to watch sometimes, but when he shines he is fantastic. He is still my favourite driver and i am also loving his time at Mclaren.His overall performances do seem to be inconsistent though, with last Sunday's performance being especially bad.
I'm enjoying watching his time at McL though.
Daz68 said:
+1. I have alot of time for Jenson but he can be very frustrating to watch sometimes, but when he shines he is fantastic. He is still my favourite driver and i am also loving his time at Mclaren.
+1A bit overrated. One those drivers who on his day can beat anyone.
The doubters should re-watch the 2009 Brazillian GP. He pulled off a couple of cracking moves.
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