Anyone worried about debris?
Discussion
I'm increasingly getting an uneasy feeling about safety in F1. It's been 17 years without a fatality and I think everyone accepts there will be another one at some point - it's a question of when though.
And my main concern of late is debris. We saw what happened to Massa a couple of years back, then there was Henry Surtees too.
The Belgian GP last weekend, we had Schumacher's wheel coming off in Q1, that wheel could have gone anywhere.
Then in the race debris flying at Button and taking out his front wing and rear-view mirror - how close was that to his head?
And watching that amazing replay of Schumacher's first lap with all the debris flying at him on the run down to Eau Rouge.
Have we been lucky so far that none of this debris has hit a driver in the visor? If it did, would the visor hold up?
Is there more debris than previously?
Whilst all the pieces that fall off cars during impact help that driver avoid injury by dissipating energy, isn't there some risk that the danger is being passed to other following drivers?
And my main concern of late is debris. We saw what happened to Massa a couple of years back, then there was Henry Surtees too.
The Belgian GP last weekend, we had Schumacher's wheel coming off in Q1, that wheel could have gone anywhere.
Then in the race debris flying at Button and taking out his front wing and rear-view mirror - how close was that to his head?
And watching that amazing replay of Schumacher's first lap with all the debris flying at him on the run down to Eau Rouge.
Have we been lucky so far that none of this debris has hit a driver in the visor? If it did, would the visor hold up?
Is there more debris than previously?
Whilst all the pieces that fall off cars during impact help that driver avoid injury by dissipating energy, isn't there some risk that the danger is being passed to other following drivers?
doogz said:
I'm sure i seen some video's recently, are they not talking about canopies on F1 cars in the future?
Someone showed me a couple of video's of a wheel and tyre being launched at high speed, at what looked like an F16 canopy, and it pretty much just shrugged it off, undamaged.
Yes you either stop the outside world from reaching them, or you accept that they are exposed to bits of whatever flying about.Someone showed me a couple of video's of a wheel and tyre being launched at high speed, at what looked like an F16 canopy, and it pretty much just shrugged it off, undamaged.
Loose wheel incidents are taken pretty seriously, and I guess they could introduce rules about the strength of body components so they don't come off as easily. But then when they do come off they will be heavier...
There is no simple solution.
Are you really sure about this thread, it's racing, they get paid absolute fortunes, it's supposed to be dangerous, in club racing you race whatever the conditions, wind, rain, snow!! and if something falls off a car and ruins your weekend or puts you in hospital, that's how it is.
Somehow it all changes when they get to F1, this safety rubbish has gone to far, stop mollycoddling the poor dears and and just tell them to get on with it like everyone else!
Somehow it all changes when they get to F1, this safety rubbish has gone to far, stop mollycoddling the poor dears and and just tell them to get on with it like everyone else!
Adrian W said:
Are you really sure about this thread, it's racing, they get paid absolute fortunes, it's supposed to be dangerous, in club racing you race whatever the conditions, wind, rain, snow!! and if something falls off a car and ruins your weekend or puts you in hospital, that's how it is.
Somehow it all changes when they get to F1, this safety rubbish has gone to far, stop mollycoddling the poor dears and and just tell them to get on with it like everyone else!
Because we all wanted to see Hamilton die when he hit the barriers on Sunday. Somehow it all changes when they get to F1, this safety rubbish has gone to far, stop mollycoddling the poor dears and and just tell them to get on with it like everyone else!
Adrian W said:
Are you really sure about this thread, it's racing, they get paid absolute fortunes, it's supposed to be dangerous, in club racing you race whatever the conditions, wind, rain, snow!! and if something falls off a car and ruins your weekend or puts you in hospital, that's how it is.
Somehow it all changes when they get to F1, this safety rubbish has gone to far, stop mollycoddling the poor dears and and just tell them to get on with it like everyone else!
What about the fact they are going faster than most other racing cars so if something hits their helmet at lets say around 160mph (a la Massa) the damage will be slightly more than in lets say a Caterham doing around 100mph. I agree they are mollycoddled on lots of things but I don't believe in the case of debris they can mollycoddle too much Somehow it all changes when they get to F1, this safety rubbish has gone to far, stop mollycoddling the poor dears and and just tell them to get on with it like everyone else!
Marshalling is a pretty dangerous hobby, a guy was hit by debris when Plato had his big off at Donnington this year. Then there was the near-miss when Alan McNish went off at Le Mans, not to mention how often you see marshalls/photographers almost get flattened by an out of control rally car.
weyland yutani said:
That flying Seat at Brands Hatch not long ago was scary too. Cant help notice that a lot of marshalls at British tracks seem quite lardy though, doesn't help matter when you might need to get out of harms way.
I knew a guy who was a rally marshal, he was about 5'10 and must have been well over 20stone. I guess they used him as a crash barrier.
Adrian W said:
I assume you are not including Senna, out of interest how many fatalities or serious injuries have there been in Indy cars.
From memory, fatalities from '94 are Brayton, Krosnoff, Rodriguez, Moore and Dana. Were quite a lot of pretty serious back injuries in the early days of the IRL, including Sam Schmidt's paralysing crash, but I can't recall any specificially from debris. I can recall an oval event (Michigan perhaps?) where there were spectator fatalities after a wheel went into the crowd, but I can't remember if that was IRL or NASCAR. I suppose you could say the marshal hit by Krosnoff's car was killed by flying debris?paulmurr said:
You can't take risk down to zero, unfortunately...
This is the bottom line.Edited by paulmurr on Friday 2nd September 10:59
Safety improvements are happening all the time as materials improve and in respone to accidents - but motorsport is dangerous.
I got showered in debris from a wreck at Brands Hatch. Driver and spectator both walked away - so just another racing incident.
EDLT said:
Marshalling is a pretty dangerous hobby, a guy was hit by debris when Plato had his big off at Donnington this year. Then there was the near-miss when Alan McNish went off at Le Mans, not to mention how often you see marshalls/photographers almost get flattened by an out of control rally car.
i thought the marshall involved in the Plato incident was injured running/jumping/climbing off/over the tyre wall rather than being hit by debris. McNish had a very bad shunt at Donington in F3000 when his car broke up and entered the crowd killing one of the spectators
Edited by ritmo on Friday 2nd September 19:56
Take away the risk, and you take away a major part of motorsport. Formula 1 has never been so safe. Sure it can be safer but would you really like to see it 100% safe? I for one wouldn't. I love seeing people put their necks on the line. It's what distinguishes the good from the best. It's the same reason I love watching the TT. People giving their all, risking everything for that chance of glory. it's what makes motorsport great. Ask TT riders why they do it and most will say for the risk. I'm sure theirs formula 1 drivers that think the same. (Hamilton surely?!)
Sorry for spelling. Using iphone
Sorry for spelling. Using iphone
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