Never beaten by a teammate
Discussion
Off the top of my head Vettel and Hamilton are the only two current drivers never to have been beaten over the course of a season, in terms of final championship position, by their teammate.
Alonso lost to Hamilton
Button lost to Fisi, R.Schumacher, Barrichello and Hamilton
Webber lost to Vettel and Coulthard
Schumacher lost to Rosberg
Kubica lost to Heidfeld
Kimi lost to Heidfeld and Massa
So do head2head results between teammates mean anything and how did Heidfeld manage to outpeform both Kimi and Kubica?
Are there any more unbeaten drivers? Has anybody gone their whole career unbeaten?
One for the statto's
Alonso lost to Hamilton
Button lost to Fisi, R.Schumacher, Barrichello and Hamilton
Webber lost to Vettel and Coulthard
Schumacher lost to Rosberg
Kubica lost to Heidfeld
Kimi lost to Heidfeld and Massa
So do head2head results between teammates mean anything and how did Heidfeld manage to outpeform both Kimi and Kubica?
Are there any more unbeaten drivers? Has anybody gone their whole career unbeaten?
One for the statto's
Bedazzled said:
The records show Lewis won on countback, but Alonso had been frozen out of the team for half the season, with Ron refusing to speak to him, and the FIA even had to put an inspector in the McLaren garage to ensure they didn't banjax his car setup, IIRC. A season best forgotten for most McLaren fans.
Wow, like one side of the story right?Gaz. said:
Bedazzled said:
The records show Lewis won on countback, but Alonso had been frozen out of the team for half the season, with Ron refusing to speak to him, and the FIA even had to put an inspector in the McLaren garage to ensure they didn't banjax his car setup, IIRC. A season best forgotten for most McLaren fans.
Well that's an interest slant on it, missing a few key details:Alonso threatened to blackmail Ron by informing the FIA of his incriminating emails between himself & PDR - this was the evidence used in the appeal after Ron & Bernie disclosed it to the FIA which led to Mclarens disqualification of the 2007 WCC & $100m fine, plus fees to Ferrari.
Ron invited the head of the Spanish Motorsport Federation Carlos Gracia to be present in the Mclaren garage at the Brazilian GP.
Alonso himself, along with the rest of the Mclaren garage did not want the FIA official at the Brazilian GP: http://www.forumula1.com/2007/f1/f1-news/alonso-no...
Alonso was allowed to leave Mclaren without buying out his contract that had two years left to run.
Now can we move on - I insist.
McL mismanaged their major asset (FA) and threw away both championships in the process. Concurrently they were involved in systemic cheating. They meekly accepted the biggest fine in sporting history, and RD disappeared into the distance with his tail between his legs to design a road car which is not as good as the Fezza 458.
It was embarrassing, but let's move on.
deadslow said:
Also an interesting slant.
McL mismanaged their major asset (FA) and threw away both championships in the process. Concurrently they were involved in systemic cheating. They meekly accepted the biggest fine in sporting history, and RD disappeared into the distance with his tail between his legs to design a road car which is not as good as the Fezza 458.
It was embarrassing, but let's move on.
Good post, but not as good as a 458? Get your head out of your arse, you'll hurt your neck like that.McL mismanaged their major asset (FA) and threw away both championships in the process. Concurrently they were involved in systemic cheating. They meekly accepted the biggest fine in sporting history, and RD disappeared into the distance with his tail between his legs to design a road car which is not as good as the Fezza 458.
It was embarrassing, but let's move on.
Bedazzled said:
The records show Lewis won on countback, but Alonso had been frozen out of the team for half the season, with Ron refusing to speak to him, and the FIA even had to put an inspector in the McLaren garage to ensure they didn't banjax his car setup, IIRC. A season best forgotten for most McLaren fans.
Hmm… This looks rather selective - and I'm trying to be generous here. I think some of the quoted background to this is the result of bedazzlement.Perhaps your slant needs counter-balancing…
For a start, McLaren invited the FIA to police their own activities; so that fair play between their drivers could be in no doubt. The FIA took up this invitation for roughly half a season and found no evidence at all of any bias within the team.
You mention "Ron refusing to speak to him (Alonso)": well, how would you deal with an employee who stitched you up, attempted blackmail and continued to hold you to ransom? - someone who was involved with - and very much at the sharp end of - the very substance he volunteered to the FIA as evidence of McLaren's foul play! - Bear in mind this is someone exploiting his own inexpendability who could not be got rid of due to circumstance and the potential for world-wide public outrage (through misunderstandings such as your own), with a direct impact on the credibility of the whole 'sport' we call F1? Ron Dennis could not get rid of his own saboteur!
- It would have taken a super-human effort to pretend that all was well with a traitor within…
deadslow said:
Also an interesting slant.
McL mismanaged their major asset (FA) and threw away both championships in the process. Concurrently they were involved in systemic cheating. They meekly accepted the biggest fine in sporting history, and RD disappeared into the distance with his tail between his legs to design a road car which is not as good as the Fezza 458.
It was embarrassing, but let's move on.
Er, when you say 'they' - there were a small number of rogue employees amongst how many, 2,000? who were involved in cheating. There was an employee at Ferrari who was also cheating, but as with McL, it wouldn't be fair to describe the team as a whole being involved in it.McL mismanaged their major asset (FA) and threw away both championships in the process. Concurrently they were involved in systemic cheating. They meekly accepted the biggest fine in sporting history, and RD disappeared into the distance with his tail between his legs to design a road car which is not as good as the Fezza 458.
It was embarrassing, but let's move on.
However I do agree with you about mis-managing FA. I agree that McL could have won both wc's, and for the following year FA would have had to accept LH being given equal status, so they would have secured at least one more wc too, imo.(And no, not a bog).
nosmallfiat said:
Are there any more unbeaten drivers? Has anybody gone their whole career unbeaten?
You can add Kobayashi and Buemi to the first list.Throughout their whole career? I think Hamilton is the only one from the current F1 grid - very very impressive!
Vettel and Alonso are probably the closest after Hamilton. Vettel was only ever beaten by a teammate in the 2006 F3 Euroseries season (by Paul di Resta). Humourously in the 2007 WSBR season he beat Mikhail Aleshin, his full-season teammate, despite competing in only 7 of 17 races. For Alonso, Hamilton was the only spoiler in his career; he schooled everybody else, perhaps mildly challenged by Trulli in 2003.
The Stiglet said:
Fangio, I think.
Farina won the WDC in 1950 from Fangio in the Alfa Romeo 158s.But Alberto Ascari was never beaten. Villoresi never managed it, he was WDC in 1952 and 1953 and was killed in 1954. I don't have the stats for his results pre-1950.
I still reckon Clark has it.
The Moose said:
Just clear this up for me please
I was under the impression that the fine wasn't $100m.
I was under the impression that the actual fine was $Xm (where X < 100) and the rest was what they would have won for winning/placing in the championship?
Or have I got that wrong?!
I was under the impression that the fine wasn't $100m.
I was under the impression that the actual fine was $Xm (where X < 100) and the rest was what they would have won for winning/placing in the championship?
Or have I got that wrong?!
They were fined $100m (for the nice headline) minus what they would have earned if they were not disqualified, which came to about $50m apparently. The bigger mystery is where the money went.
Life Saab Itch said:
Oh for f
k's sake, not this st again.
Get over it.
k's sake, not this st again.Get over it.
Life Saab Itch said:
Oh for fk's sake, not this st again.
Get over it.
k's sake, not this st again.Get over it.
Life Saab Itch said:
Oh for fk's sake, not this st again.
Get over it.
k's sake, not this st again.Get over it.
Life Saab Itch said:
Oh for fk's sake, not this st again.
Get over it.
I'll keep repeating it until you all learn to leave it alone and move on. Its a silly thread anyhowk's sake, not this st again.Get over it.
cosicave said:
Bedazzled said:
The records show Lewis won on countback, but Alonso had been frozen out of the team for half the season, with Ron refusing to speak to him, and the FIA even had to put an inspector in the McLaren garage to ensure they didn't banjax his car setup, IIRC. A season best forgotten for most McLaren fans.
Hmm… This looks rather selective - and I'm trying to be generous here. I think some of the quoted background to this is the result of bedazzlement.Perhaps your slant needs counter-balancing…
For a start, McLaren invited the FIA to police their own activities; so that fair play between their drivers could be in no doubt. The FIA took up this invitation for roughly half a season and found no evidence at all of any bias within the team.
You mention "Ron refusing to speak to him (Alonso)": well, how would you deal with an employee who stitched you up, attempted blackmail and continued to hold you to ransom? - someone who was involved with - and very much at the sharp end of - the very substance he volunteered to the FIA as evidence of McLaren's foul play! - Bear in mind this is someone exploiting his own inexpendability who could not be got rid of due to circumstance and the potential for world-wide public outrage (through misunderstandings such as your own), with a direct impact on the credibility of the whole 'sport' we call F1? Ron Dennis could not get rid of his own saboteur!
- It would have taken a super-human effort to pretend that all was well with a traitor within…
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