Hmmm.. Cheating....?
Discussion
That was a period when cheating was the norm and the art was evasion of capture as much as engineering creativity.
You can go back further - i think it was the Lotus cars in the 60s that had a switch in the cockpit that was used to dump oil on the track when a driver got the fastest time in qualifying.
The list of others is a long and well documented one including lead ballast, rocket fuel, water tanks to bring cars up to weight, sucker fans (on the pretence of engine cooling, double chassis to name but a few.
You can go back further - i think it was the Lotus cars in the 60s that had a switch in the cockpit that was used to dump oil on the track when a driver got the fastest time in qualifying.
The list of others is a long and well documented one including lead ballast, rocket fuel, water tanks to bring cars up to weight, sucker fans (on the pretence of engine cooling, double chassis to name but a few.
StevieBee said:
That was a period when cheating was the norm and the art was evasion of capture as much as engineering creativity.
You can go back further - i think it was the Lotus cars in the 60s that had a switch in the cockpit that was used to dump oil on the track when a driver got the fastest time in qualifying.
The list of others is a long and well documented one including lead ballast, rocket fuel, water tanks to bring cars up to weight, sucker fans (on the pretence of engine cooling, double chassis to name but a few.
Which is all well and good except the Brabham fan car was legal when it was race, but following a "rule clarification" was banned. if it was illegal it would have had its win in Sweden stripped. Likewise the Lotus twin chassis was legal until a clarification banned it for being TFC/2. You also have to remember its not cheating until you get caught, up until then its exploring the limits of the rulebook.You can go back further - i think it was the Lotus cars in the 60s that had a switch in the cockpit that was used to dump oil on the track when a driver got the fastest time in qualifying.
The list of others is a long and well documented one including lead ballast, rocket fuel, water tanks to bring cars up to weight, sucker fans (on the pretence of engine cooling, double chassis to name but a few.
Regards
Iain
Just read a great book about Booby Isaac, Nascar driver. It goes on to some length about some of the rule bending that took place. Roll cages filled with petrol, one guy had extended the length of the fuel lines on his car to enable him to carry a few more gallons, freezing the shock absorbers in full droop to ensure the legal ride height, then as the car warms up and the shocks thaw out the car drops to an illegal but faster ride height. Rocks wedged in between springs to pass ride height tests, these would then pop out on the warm up lap, they even had the factory make props to hold the car up for scrutineering but that would settle to a lower ride when on track. Post race scrutineering stopped a lot of this, but they still found ways around the regs.
Seem to recall many years ago in Club racing (Escort Sport or Mexico Championship I think) The usual way of measuring ride height was from the floor to the top of the door sill. That is until one of the frontrunners was thoroughly checked and found to have the correct sill height – but with a door opening a couple of inches smaller than it should have been. The whole car had been lowered and the door opening adjusted to suit. Tales of engine and complete car changes were rife in that series.
RLK500 said:
Just read a great book about Booby Isaac, Nascar driver. It goes on to some length about some of the rule bending that took place. Roll cages filled with petrol, one guy had extended the length of the fuel lines on his car to enable him to carry a few more gallons, freezing the shock absorbers in full droop to ensure the legal ride height, then as the car warms up and the shocks thaw out the car drops to an illegal but faster ride height. Rocks wedged in between springs to pass ride height tests, these would then pop out on the warm up lap, they even had the factory make props to hold the car up for scrutineering but that would settle to a lower ride when on track. Post race scrutineering stopped a lot of this, but they still found ways around the regs.
Last year or the year before, someone was running tyre valves engineered in conjunction with caps that had a tiny hole in so air would leak out gradually over the course of a run, meaning the tyre pressure stayed constant (no tyre warming in NASCAR).Worked well until there was a red flag and the cars stopped on the track for an extended period. When they came to move again, the car had four flat tyres
.
Jasandjules said:
Sad that cheating appears to be accepted.
Its never beem accepted, but these are past experiences and nothing can be done about them. There are loads of examples(I wont dare mention F1 in very recent iems as that can of worms is just about contained....). My favourite was on here recently:
when they were making the shells for the racing cars at the factory (lotus Cortina??) they used much thinner steel, and pressed two panels at the same time. You then could make 2 complete shells. Both of veyr thing steel, one slightly smaller then normal...
Cheating has never been accepted in F1 - and I don't think there's been an outright, intentional breach of the technical regs for a long time.
However, things like using the induction loop under the grid to get launch control, having a non-moving moveable aerodynamic device (F duct), the McLaren second brake pedal, cooling fans that "accidentally" suck the car to the road, Double Diffusers and so on are just what makes F1 the sport it is; trying to find loopholes everywhere you can.
However, things like using the induction loop under the grid to get launch control, having a non-moving moveable aerodynamic device (F duct), the McLaren second brake pedal, cooling fans that "accidentally" suck the car to the road, Double Diffusers and so on are just what makes F1 the sport it is; trying to find loopholes everywhere you can.
Someone in the know told me about getting an ex works Nissan primara btcc car that had the shell trick, they replaced the door skins after a knock & the buggers wouldn't shut! Whole roof had been dropped by an inch!
Everyone cheats, I love it-it's part of the craic bending the rules. The problems start when you get caught!
Just ask flavio & pique-though maybe don't mention it to alonso!
Everyone cheats, I love it-it's part of the craic bending the rules. The problems start when you get caught!
Just ask flavio & pique-though maybe don't mention it to alonso!
Chassis 33 said:
Which is all well and good except the Brabham fan car was legal when it was race, but following a "rule clarification" was banned. if it was illegal it would have had its win in Sweden stripped. Likewise the Lotus twin chassis was legal until a clarification banned it for being TFC/2. You also have to remember its not cheating until you get caught, up until then its exploring the limits of the rulebook.
Regards
Iain
The Brabham Fan Car was never banned, it was voluntarily withdrawn.Regards
Iain
Jasandjules said:
Sad that cheating appears to be accepted.
To be honest I don't see it as being that bad. If they go too far they will get caught quickly, but little bits of cheating are just cost effective ways of getting that extra 100th or maybe even 10th per lap. Also, the rules change that often it must be terribly difficult to keep on top of what is and is t allowed 
? I wish mclaren and Ferrari would cheat a bit to make the results more interesting.
davepoth said:
Cheating has never been accepted in F1 - and I don't think there's been an outright, intentional breach of the technical regs for a long time.
However, things like using the induction loop under the grid to get launch control, having a non-moving moveable aerodynamic device (F duct), the McLaren second brake pedal, cooling fans that "accidentally" suck the car to the road, Double Diffusers and so on are just what makes F1 the sport it is; trying to find loopholes everywhere you can.
Flexible floors in red cars from Italy spring (no pun intended) to mind in very recent times. Pretty much universally acknowledged as against the rules, the FIA measuring was the only thing which didn't catch it. However, things like using the induction loop under the grid to get launch control, having a non-moving moveable aerodynamic device (F duct), the McLaren second brake pedal, cooling fans that "accidentally" suck the car to the road, Double Diffusers and so on are just what makes F1 the sport it is; trying to find loopholes everywhere you can.
F duct, second brake pedal, mass dampers, double diffusers have all been legal but not all fit within the spirit of the rules.
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