Jenson Button - driver of the 2011 season?
Discussion
First things first, I haven't and don't post often (if at all), but let's not make that an excuse for not considering the following;
Jenson Button is the best performing driver of the 2011 F1 season, discuss?
Why do I post this when clearly Vettel is the run away winner? Well, overall I believe that stats aside, Jenson's performances in Montreal, Spa, Monza and Singers in particular were way beyond what he was capable of achieving. Previously he had impressed in Brazil and Abu Dhabi in 2009, but this year I feel that he has driven his socks off and has earned my respect in terms of his driving and maturity.
As I said I never post, but this is something I think worthy of dicussing.
Jenson Button is the best performing driver of the 2011 F1 season, discuss?
Why do I post this when clearly Vettel is the run away winner? Well, overall I believe that stats aside, Jenson's performances in Montreal, Spa, Monza and Singers in particular were way beyond what he was capable of achieving. Previously he had impressed in Brazil and Abu Dhabi in 2009, but this year I feel that he has driven his socks off and has earned my respect in terms of his driving and maturity.
As I said I never post, but this is something I think worthy of dicussing.
I agree with you, Jenson has been even better this year, I am very impressed with his racing performances.
Hopefully his current form will continue to the end of this season, ending runner up to Vettel, who has also been outstanding this year.
This year, I would say, has been the best F1 season I can remember since I began watching in the 70’s.
Hopefully his current form will continue to the end of this season, ending runner up to Vettel, who has also been outstanding this year.
This year, I would say, has been the best F1 season I can remember since I began watching in the 70’s.
That's kind of my point. I've never been a 'fan' of Jenson as he seemed to be all hype and no delivery.
Of course was delighted he won in 2009, albeit in special 'technical' circumstances, but this year he's really impressed and for what it's worth (like he gives a s
t!) he's earned my respect.
IMHO Mclaren should lock him in.
Of course was delighted he won in 2009, albeit in special 'technical' circumstances, but this year he's really impressed and for what it's worth (like he gives a s
t!) he's earned my respect. IMHO Mclaren should lock him in.
Do we really need to reopen the 2009 'double diffuser' debate following Brawn helping write the rule changes?
Jenson got a 6 race head start on the rest of the field. Red bull came back strongly, Jenson began to struggle (nerves), almost choked, but delivered a previously unseen Michael Schumacheresque performance in Brazil to win the championship.
Luck, yes
Best car, yes
2011 a better season, yes
Jenson got a 6 race head start on the rest of the field. Red bull came back strongly, Jenson began to struggle (nerves), almost choked, but delivered a previously unseen Michael Schumacheresque performance in Brazil to win the championship.
Luck, yes
Best car, yes
2011 a better season, yes
He's certainly been the best at racing.
Perhaps Vettel has been better at driving - as in clinical, hot laps, qualifying and staying ahead, but Jenson has been able to take people on and beat them.
Struggling to come up with an analogy, I've stumbled upon this:
Imagine it's golf. Vettel likes to play on his own, and is very good around the course by himself. Make him pair up with someone else though, and his game goes to pot.
Jensen, however, can play well as part of a four-ball, and will come out the winner. Unfortunately his score doesn't beat Vettel's when he's playing on his own.
/end terrible analogy.
Perhaps Vettel has been better at driving - as in clinical, hot laps, qualifying and staying ahead, but Jenson has been able to take people on and beat them.
Struggling to come up with an analogy, I've stumbled upon this:
Imagine it's golf. Vettel likes to play on his own, and is very good around the course by himself. Make him pair up with someone else though, and his game goes to pot.
Jensen, however, can play well as part of a four-ball, and will come out the winner. Unfortunately his score doesn't beat Vettel's when he's playing on his own.
/end terrible analogy.
Tivbucks said:
Do we really need to reopen the 2009 'double diffuser' debate following Brawn helping write the rule changes?
Jenson got a 6 race head start on the rest of the field. Red bull came back strongly, Jenson began to struggle (nerves), almost choked, but delivered a previously unseen Michael Schumacheresque performance in Brazil to win the championship.
Luck, yes
Best car, yes
2011 a better season, yes
Well, both Williams, and Toyota had the same double diffuser, and it was deemed legal. Tough titty on those who were slow to interpret the rules.Jenson got a 6 race head start on the rest of the field. Red bull came back strongly, Jenson began to struggle (nerves), almost choked, but delivered a previously unseen Michael Schumacheresque performance in Brazil to win the championship.
Luck, yes
Best car, yes
2011 a better season, yes
DanDC5 said:
As much as I want to agree, it has to be Vettel. He's been pretty much faultless all year, taken every opportunity that has come to him and his pole and win record speaks for itself. He's learnt from every mistake last year and become a much better driver because of it.
Most important of all for him he's had confidence in the car and his performances. He's been so dominant that in moments when he's taken risks (round the outside of Alonso notably), he's done so partially because he knows it's not vital to win that race. I tend to agree. Hamilton has been having spats left, right and centre and generally letting things get to him, whereas Button just seems to have been getting on with things. To a degree, I think he's got in Lewis' head and is exposing the cracks. Shampoo adverts aside, I think he's handled himself brilliantly this season.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Yep. Fully agree Jenson is the man this year. Pleased to see that he has really made his mark at McLaren after all of those detractors said he'd screw it up and be blown away by LH.
Even as a Button fan, I thought teaming up with Hamilton was borderline career suicide largely motivated by money. On reflection it seems that JB, having won the title, wanted the opportunity to prove himself against the acknowledged 'racer' in Tue pack in Hamilton. Hamilton is still the best out and out racer in grand Prix racing at the moment but he makes far too many errors and as an all round racing driver who's thought processes and - at times - outright pace are head and shoulders above all his peers Button has been the stand out performer of the yearEdited by jonnylayze on Thursday 29th September 20:10
Tivbucks said:
Do we really need to reopen the 2009 'double diffuser' debate following Brawn helping write the rule changes?
Jenson got a 6 race head start on the rest of the field. Red bull came back strongly, Jenson began to struggle (nerves), almost choked, but delivered a previously unseen Michael Schumacheresque performance in Brazil to win the championship.
Luck, yes
Best car, yes
2011 a better season, yes
In Brazil, Jenson took a car that his team-mate put on pole, qualified it way way down the grid and managed to take fifth place in it with a few good passes against far inferior cars - surely a Vettel would have taken pole and the win - don't think that was a Schumacheresque performance. Jenson got a 6 race head start on the rest of the field. Red bull came back strongly, Jenson began to struggle (nerves), almost choked, but delivered a previously unseen Michael Schumacheresque performance in Brazil to win the championship.
Luck, yes
Best car, yes
2011 a better season, yes
But agree with the OP, Jenson has been driving extremely well - I'd still opt for Vettel: faultless aside from a conservative run from the restart in Canada and a half-spin. As in 2007, Mclaren's team-mates reveal each other's weaknesses.
donna180 said:
In Brazil, Jenson took a car that his team-mate put on pole, qualified it way way down the grid and managed to take fifth place in it with a few good passes against far inferior cars - surely a Vettel would have taken pole and the win - don't think that was a Schumacheresque performance.
But agree with the OP, Jenson has been driving extremely well - I'd still opt for Vettel: faultless aside from a conservative run from the restart in Canada and a half-spin. As in 2007, Mclaren's team-mates reveal each other's weaknesses.
Yes but you amongst other posters have a permanent cob-on about Button, one suspects mainly cos he's leading your favourite, Hamilton, in the points in the same team, so the above is more than a tad biased isn't it? That's a very cherry-picked argument which ignores his two victories. It ignores Canada which was an utter blinder of a race, tell me that wasn't reminicent of Schumacher or Senna in their prime?But agree with the OP, Jenson has been driving extremely well - I'd still opt for Vettel: faultless aside from a conservative run from the restart in Canada and a half-spin. As in 2007, Mclaren's team-mates reveal each other's weaknesses.
I wouldn't say Button's had the season that Vettel has, cos Vettel has made the most of his car whenever it matters: qually, start, in-laps etc, while every other driver on the grid has made mistakes. Vettel delivers on cue, every time.
He's been like Djokovic in tennis this year - whenever he's been flaky it's not been crunch time. When he needed to deliver, he's stepped up and done it. It's a hell of a season that Vettel's put together. Wonder why Webber can't touch him though...
But Button's had some tremendous performances, as have the other two non-Red Bull 2nd place contenders, and this damning with faint praise he attracts from certain dyed-in-the-wool Hamilton fans does kinda do its best to set aside this fact.
FNG said:
Yes but you amongst other posters have a permanent cob-on about Button, one suspects mainly cos he's leading your favourite, Hamilton, in the points in the same team, so the above is more than a tad biased isn't it? That's a very cherry-picked argument which ignores his two victories. It ignores Canada which was an utter blinder of a race, tell me that wasn't reminicent of Schumacher or Senna in their prime?
I wouldn't say Button's had the season that Vettel has, cos Vettel has made the most of his car whenever it matters: qually, start, in-laps etc, while every other driver on the grid has made mistakes. Vettel delivers on cue, every time.
He's been like Djokovic in tennis this year - whenever he's been flaky it's not been crunch time. When he needed to deliver, he's stepped up and done it. It's a hell of a season that Vettel's put together. Wonder why Webber can't touch him though...
But Button's had some tremendous performances, as have the other two non-Red Bull 2nd place contenders, and this damning with faint praise he attracts from certain dyed-in-the-wool Hamilton fans does kinda do its best to set aside this fact.
I don't think I'm too biased against Jenson - I've been quite impressed and he's gone up massively in my estimation. I'm kind of 50:50 Lewis:Jenson but Seb is my clear favourite now after finding out he doesn't even have a manager and after last season's title effort under maximum pressure... I wouldn't say Button's had the season that Vettel has, cos Vettel has made the most of his car whenever it matters: qually, start, in-laps etc, while every other driver on the grid has made mistakes. Vettel delivers on cue, every time.
He's been like Djokovic in tennis this year - whenever he's been flaky it's not been crunch time. When he needed to deliver, he's stepped up and done it. It's a hell of a season that Vettel's put together. Wonder why Webber can't touch him though...
But Button's had some tremendous performances, as have the other two non-Red Bull 2nd place contenders, and this damning with faint praise he attracts from certain dyed-in-the-wool Hamilton fans does kinda do its best to set aside this fact.
Re Jenson, Canada I'm not so impressed with - for me and I know lots will disagree but this is my take, Lewis was faster, a few safety cars bunched everything up and a conservative Vettel on the restart probably underestimating the Mclaren as it wasn't Lewis... - I was more impressed with Hungry with Jenson actually wheel to wheel with Lewis and pushing Lewis into a mistake/tyre change where Jenson was probably going to keep going...
Jenson's highs are very high (and there were glimpses before Mclaren or Brawn) but he's still 10:4 down against Lewis in qualie and if I recall, not much faster against Lewis in Canada than say Heikki was in 2009 (or 8) - it was a big gap. I still suspect, more than any other driver, that Jenson doesn't deliver to his actual potential most of the time.
I hope both Jenson and Lewis perform to 100% of their abilities and we see some cracking racing between them.
Edited by donna180 on Thursday 29th September 21:04
jonnylayze said:
Even as a Button fan, I thought teaming up with Hamilton was borderline career suicide largely motivated by money. On reflection it seems that JB, having won the title, wanted the opportunity to prove himself against the acknowledged 'racer' in Tue pack in Hamilton. Hamilton is still the best out and out racer in grand Prix racing at the moment but he makes far too many errors and as an all round racing driver who's thought processes and - at times - outright pace are head and shoulders above all his peers Button has been the stand out performer of the year
Completely agree. I also think that it shows the advantage of Mclaren's equal driver policy too - having such different drivers has given them the opportunity to hedge their bets. Its rare that both cars have under performed in a race. Donna, I suggest you back and watch the Canadian GP again. I'd also suggest watching the Monaco GP and see how swings and roundabouts with regards to safety cars, etc.
In Canada, Button had 10 laps to overtake 2 world champions, and Webber, who is no slouch. You could give him credit JUST for that, however, if you pit into context the 6 pit pane visits prior to that, and you still fail to be impressed? Vettel being conservative is a fairly bad excuse. Button came from a long way back, and Vettel was in clean air, newer tyres.
In Canada, Button had 10 laps to overtake 2 world champions, and Webber, who is no slouch. You could give him credit JUST for that, however, if you pit into context the 6 pit pane visits prior to that, and you still fail to be impressed? Vettel being conservative is a fairly bad excuse. Button came from a long way back, and Vettel was in clean air, newer tyres.
Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff