Deaths in motorsport
Discussion
I hope this post isn't bad form, if it is please remove it.
Following on from the tragic events of this past week where we have lost 2 rising stars in the world of motorsport, I once read/heard somewhere that a racer will never be confirmed dead on the circuit? Even if death is instant, the racer will be taken to a medical centre where the sad news will then be announced that they died there, rather than on the tarmac. What I understood that it was a pact that all those in motorsport had, there was never death on the circuit?
Following on from the tragic events of this past week where we have lost 2 rising stars in the world of motorsport, I once read/heard somewhere that a racer will never be confirmed dead on the circuit? Even if death is instant, the racer will be taken to a medical centre where the sad news will then be announced that they died there, rather than on the tarmac. What I understood that it was a pact that all those in motorsport had, there was never death on the circuit?
zetec said:
I hope this post isn't bad form, if it is please remove it.
Following on from the tragic events of this past week where we have lost 2 rising stars in the world of motorsport, I once read/heard somewhere that a racer will never be confirmed dead on the circuit? Even if death is instant, the racer will be taken to a medical centre where the sad news will then be announced that they died there, rather than on the tarmac. What I understood that it was a pact that all those in motorsport had, there was never death on the circuit?
You will find generally, if the death is recorded as "Succumbed on route to hospital" or similar, it prevents the circuit being closed, the vehicle being impounded, and a lot of work for all involved!Following on from the tragic events of this past week where we have lost 2 rising stars in the world of motorsport, I once read/heard somewhere that a racer will never be confirmed dead on the circuit? Even if death is instant, the racer will be taken to a medical centre where the sad news will then be announced that they died there, rather than on the tarmac. What I understood that it was a pact that all those in motorsport had, there was never death on the circuit?
ginettajoe said:
You will find generally, if the death is recorded as "Succumbed on route to hospital" or similar, it prevents the circuit being closed, the vehicle being impounded, and a lot of work for all involved!
i cant believe that anyone with a shred of dignity will change the particulars of a death to suit a commercial organisation?pablo said:
ginettajoe said:
You will find generally, if the death is recorded as "Succumbed on route to hospital" or similar, it prevents the circuit being closed, the vehicle being impounded, and a lot of work for all involved!
i cant believe that anyone with a shred of dignity will change the particulars of a death to suit a commercial organisation?yes this is right you do not die on the track,enforced comer is the thing they do,yes and they cancel the meet if you die on the track,me and my son have both said if it happens it happned doing what we love,my race mate has been in hospital 2 years now with head injurys,personly i would rather the other,but would he do it all again hell yes,the times he has been in the med center and he just kept comeing back for more,hope this has not upset people,sorry if it has.
n3il123 said:
Pretty much so, mostly someone will die on the way to hospital.
Its not so much for the commercial aspect but because of all the H & S BS that there would have to be an investigation etc as I understand it.
Surely there would have to be a police/H&S investigation anyway wherever the point of demise is recorded.Its not so much for the commercial aspect but because of all the H & S BS that there would have to be an investigation etc as I understand it.
I had experience of this many years back when the driver of a team I was running was killed after going off sideways into a tree in a public park.
Driver and co-driver (who survived with major head injuries) were taken to hospital where the driver was pronounced dead.
Police taped off the area ( I guess as a potential crime scene) and impounded the car and they and the MSA carried out a full investigation/inspection of the vehicle.
BB
zetec said:
What I understood that it was a pact that all those in motorsport had, there was never death on the circuit?
Although this will never be formally admitted, you are correct.There are many reasons. Initially, it was felt that spectators should be spared the trauma of believing they had witnessed the death of someone in front of them - much better to believe they passed away elsewhere.
There are also legal ramifications in some countries that would require a circuit to suspend all activities until a full investigation has taken place which could take years and bankrupt them.
I believe there are also issues with some life insurance policies that would refuse to pay out if the death was announced at the circuit.
It's a rather dark area and one that's seldom spoken about openly but this approach is common practice not just in motor sport but other high-risk activities as well such as skiing.
Another aspect that appears from these events is that the news programmes have shown the footage of what happened, which I don't recall being the case before.
My wife said she has seen the motorbike accident but I don't want to see it. I saw on BBC the Wheldon crash, but I wasn't sure what car he was in and didn't want to see it again, I find it very odd that the news want to show us the exact event unfold, I don't want to see it that is for sure.
I saw a FF driver killed at Oulton Park many years ago and again it was only announced afterwards, but I was pretty certain. The doubt in my mind did mean I could enjoy the rest of the racing though, which might not have been the case had my worst fears been confirmed at the time.
Guess they also need to think about the state of mind of the racers about to take to the track afterwards too, plus of course letting family know first and that sort of thing.
My wife said she has seen the motorbike accident but I don't want to see it. I saw on BBC the Wheldon crash, but I wasn't sure what car he was in and didn't want to see it again, I find it very odd that the news want to show us the exact event unfold, I don't want to see it that is for sure.
I saw a FF driver killed at Oulton Park many years ago and again it was only announced afterwards, but I was pretty certain. The doubt in my mind did mean I could enjoy the rest of the racing though, which might not have been the case had my worst fears been confirmed at the time.
Guess they also need to think about the state of mind of the racers about to take to the track afterwards too, plus of course letting family know first and that sort of thing.
zebedee said:
I saw a FF driver killed at Oulton Park many years ago and again it was only announced afterwards, but I was pretty certain. The doubt in my mind did mean I could enjoy the rest of the racing though, which might not have been the case had my worst fears been confirmed at the time.
1991 iirc, Paul Warwick lost control at Knicker Brook, he flew from the car at well over 100 MPH into the tyres and then the spectater area, the outcome was obvious, but again he "died later".Apologies for the slight 'Gory' details, but its how I remember it, and how it sits in my mind, you knew what had happened, you knew the result, but he still died 'later in hospital'
Lord_Howit_Hertz said:
1991 iirc, Paul Warwick lost control at Knicker Brook, he flew from the car at well over 100 MPH into the tyres and then the spectater area, the outcome was obvious, but again he "died later".
Apologies for the slight 'Gory' details, but its how I remember it, and how it sits in my mind, you knew what had happened, you knew the result, but he still died 'later in hospital'
Aye, the first circuit based event I attended that one & we were right opposite it.Apologies for the slight 'Gory' details, but its how I remember it, and how it sits in my mind, you knew what had happened, you knew the result, but he still died 'later in hospital'
Horrendous accident, we were just kids & didn't really figure it out until they started putting tarps up to shield the publics view half way up the grass bank.
Motorsport is dangerous, but we all accept the risks I guess.
Simply put, almost anything that could happen to a driver/rider that may result in death is some form of major trauma. While there will be course doctors and other medical staff on hand, and some form of medical centre on site, the best chance of survival and recovery is to get them to a hospital as quickly as possible, ideally one that specialises in that sort of medicine.
Definition of time of death is tricky (and I'm not a medical professional), but if attempts at resuscitation are going on, death will not be declared until these have been unsuccessful.
What do you expect, for the course doctor to hop out of his car, take a pulse, shake his head and fill out the forms then and there?
Definition of time of death is tricky (and I'm not a medical professional), but if attempts at resuscitation are going on, death will not be declared until these have been unsuccessful.
What do you expect, for the course doctor to hop out of his car, take a pulse, shake his head and fill out the forms then and there?
It's an unwritten rule, no one dies at the circuit. It helps keep insurance costs down. When Ratzenberger hit the wall with his head at the Villeneuve chicane, he sustained a hangmans fracture, basal skull fracture ( c spine 1). That would have resulted in pretty much instant death, but the medics made sure they were seen trying to resuscitate him. He died at the hospital later you know 
There's an excellent chapter on this in Steve Olvey's (sort of US Sid Watkins) book "Rapid Response". Whole book is well worth a read if you're a fan of US racing. He talks about the problems caused in the wake of Gordon Smiley's death in 1982, which was declared at that track, and that from that point on, "nobody is declared at the track unless they're decapitated or incinerated". Bit grim, but I think it is indeed to avoid legal complications. At a more human level, it's also to allow time for relatives to be informed and for them to be the first to know, not the media, which seems like the decent thing to do. The book cites the Jeff Krosnoff fatality in 1996 as one where the driver was dead when the safety team got to him, but where the theatre of treatment was carried on to give time for things to be organised, both by the track and the emergency teams. Sounds harsh really, but I can understand why they do it. Wheldon's crash was obviously very serious before (lack of) news of his condition made people suspect the worst, but would it really have been fair for his parents to have been informed of his death by ABC, or heaven forbid Twitter, given they weren't at the track?
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