How Good Was...
Discussion
Although the results never materialised in F1, how good were these drivers/cars.
Chris Amon. - certainly the best never to win a race, but he was highly rated by Jenks at the time. Was it just luck that stopped him having more success?
Rolf Stommelen. - a career ending shunt when he was leading a GP. Very good in sportscars iirc.
Mark Donohue. - superb in american touring cars and CanAm. A genuine F1 contender?
Trevor Taylor. - unfortunate to be Jim Clark's team mate when chapman may as well have only fielded one car. Any thoughts?
Piers Courage. - Rindt rated him. Very high acclaim. What could he have done in a works Brabham or Lotus of the time?
Onofre Marimon. - Fangio's protege. Could we have seen an extended Argentinian domination of the sport?
Dan Gurney. - the only man apart from Moss to have got 3 maiden Victories for 3 manufacturers. The only driver that Clark feared...
Given a couple more years, would the Embassy Hill team have been a major player? Didn't Stommelen lead the Spanish GP in 1975 before an early composite rear wing failed?
Were they a team on the up?
Chris Amon. - certainly the best never to win a race, but he was highly rated by Jenks at the time. Was it just luck that stopped him having more success?
Rolf Stommelen. - a career ending shunt when he was leading a GP. Very good in sportscars iirc.
Mark Donohue. - superb in american touring cars and CanAm. A genuine F1 contender?
Trevor Taylor. - unfortunate to be Jim Clark's team mate when chapman may as well have only fielded one car. Any thoughts?
Piers Courage. - Rindt rated him. Very high acclaim. What could he have done in a works Brabham or Lotus of the time?
Onofre Marimon. - Fangio's protege. Could we have seen an extended Argentinian domination of the sport?
Dan Gurney. - the only man apart from Moss to have got 3 maiden Victories for 3 manufacturers. The only driver that Clark feared...
Given a couple more years, would the Embassy Hill team have been a major player? Didn't Stommelen lead the Spanish GP in 1975 before an early composite rear wing failed?
Were they a team on the up?
Edited by Life Saab Itch on Wednesday 18th January 10:12
Everyone will have different opinions but here are mine on the ones I know anything about;
Chris Amon. - certainly the best never to win a race, but he was highly rated by Jenks at the time. Was it just luck that stopped him having more success?
Bad luck and bad team choices. But he was a great driver and one of the best of his time.
Rolf Stommelen. - a career ending shunt when he was leading a GP. Very good in sportscars iirc.
A good driver, but not great.
Mark Donohue. - superb in american touring cars and CanAm. A genuine F1 contender?
Great driver and engineer but debuted in F1 far too late in his career.
Dan Gurney. - the only man apart from Moss to have got 3 maiden Victories for 3 manufacturers. The only driver that Clark feared.
A great driver, engineer and person.
Given a couple more years, would the Embassy Hill team have been a major player?
I doubt it. They didn't have the depth of engineering/design skills like Lotus/Brabham/Ferrari etc.
Chris Amon. - certainly the best never to win a race, but he was highly rated by Jenks at the time. Was it just luck that stopped him having more success?
Bad luck and bad team choices. But he was a great driver and one of the best of his time.
Rolf Stommelen. - a career ending shunt when he was leading a GP. Very good in sportscars iirc.
A good driver, but not great.
Mark Donohue. - superb in american touring cars and CanAm. A genuine F1 contender?
Great driver and engineer but debuted in F1 far too late in his career.
Dan Gurney. - the only man apart from Moss to have got 3 maiden Victories for 3 manufacturers. The only driver that Clark feared.
A great driver, engineer and person.
Given a couple more years, would the Embassy Hill team have been a major player?
I doubt it. They didn't have the depth of engineering/design skills like Lotus/Brabham/Ferrari etc.
Crafty_ said:
Bellof ? Petersen ?
Good calls on both. Ronnie had Emerson and Mario to compare to. A Lotus driver should have won the 1973 WDC really. Peterson loyally stayed behind Mario several times in 1978. Mario even concedes that Peterson could have passed any time he liked.Bellof is a difficult one. He was clearly very very talented, but I'm afraid I can't see the final outcome being much different. If it hadn't happened at Spa in sportscars, it would have happened somewhere else in F1 cars. It was the whole "beating ickx, the king of sports cars, in his own back yard, around the outside of the most feared corner in racing" that motivated him. Imagine adding him to the mix in a competitive car against Piquet, Mansell, Senna and Prost in the mid-late eighties.
Good calls though.
Thinking a little wider, those drivers that never got the chance in F1 but were successful anyway:
Tom Kristensen - Brundle once called him the best driver never to get into F1
Dario Franchitti - Took him a while but 3 time indycar champ and has dabbled a bit in sportscars too
Any others that just dropped off the radar ?
Tom Kristensen - Brundle once called him the best driver never to get into F1
Dario Franchitti - Took him a while but 3 time indycar champ and has dabbled a bit in sportscars too
Any others that just dropped off the radar ?
Crafty_ said:
Thinking a little wider, those drivers that never got the chance in F1 but were successful anyway:
Tom Kristensen - Brundle once called him the best driver never to get into F1
Dario Franchitti - Took him a while but 3 time indycar champ and has dabbled a bit in sportscars too
Any others that just dropped off the radar ?
Yvan Muller was quite good in F3000 iirc.Tom Kristensen - Brundle once called him the best driver never to get into F1
Dario Franchitti - Took him a while but 3 time indycar champ and has dabbled a bit in sportscars too
Any others that just dropped off the radar ?
Life Saab Itch said:
Crafty_ said:
Thinking a little wider, those drivers that never got the chance in F1 but were successful anyway:
Tom Kristensen - Brundle once called him the best driver never to get into F1
Dario Franchitti - Took him a while but 3 time indycar champ and has dabbled a bit in sportscars too
Any others that just dropped off the radar ?
Yvan Muller was quite good in F3000 iirc.Tom Kristensen - Brundle once called him the best driver never to get into F1
Dario Franchitti - Took him a while but 3 time indycar champ and has dabbled a bit in sportscars too
Any others that just dropped off the radar ?
kiteless said:
Vic Elford.
We all know he could pedal most cars at a rare old rate of knots on a variety of surfaces. But (and I'm not sure about this) could he have tackled a F1 car of the time?
Quick Vic finished fourth on his F1 debut at a rain soaked Rouen in the Cooper '68, having, of course, already won the Monte, Daytona, TF and 'ring 1000k that year...We all know he could pedal most cars at a rare old rate of knots on a variety of surfaces. But (and I'm not sure about this) could he have tackled a F1 car of the time?
theshrew said:
Im going to say Allan McNish - I could never understand why he never got a chance in F1 when he was younger.
Sportscars and F1 are actually very different and there are drivers who are very good at one and just can't do the other, for example Pedro Lamy, Marc Gene, and in the other direction (stretching the point here...) Jacques f
king Villeneuve.However, Allan is incredibly quick when needed and in occasionally throwing his Audi at various bits of trackside ironmongery he also demonstrates that he pushes very hard and isn't afraid to go up to and beyond the limits of the car. I think Ant Davidson is similar in this respect too, if I was running a sportscar team I'd love to have them both in the same car, alongside TK, but I think it would be too big a risk in a long race.
thanetspeedshop said:
Really?
Good at what?
I knew that was coming Good at what?
He was pretty useless in F1 but in a sportscar he's not that bad. He has the consistency and temperament to do what is required to complete a 24h race. He has been part of the Peugeot programme since the start, and done a reasonable job there, but always teamed up with one more 'edgy' and outright quick driver because he brings different attributes to the team.
jamiebae said:
Sportscars and F1 are actually very different and there are drivers who are very good at one and just can't do the other, for example Pedro Lamy, Marc Gene, and in the other direction (stretching the point here...) Jacques fking Villeneuve.
However, Allan is incredibly quick when needed and in occasionally throwing his Audi at various bits of trackside ironmongery he also demonstrates that he pushes very hard and isn't afraid to go up to and beyond the limits of the car. I think Ant Davidson is similar in this respect too, if I was running a sportscar team I'd love to have them both in the same car, alongside TK, but I think it would be too big a risk in a long race.
He was good in single seaters to. I always kind of feel sorry for him as nothing seemed to quite fall into place for him at the right time to get into F1. king Villeneuve.However, Allan is incredibly quick when needed and in occasionally throwing his Audi at various bits of trackside ironmongery he also demonstrates that he pushes very hard and isn't afraid to go up to and beyond the limits of the car. I think Ant Davidson is similar in this respect too, if I was running a sportscar team I'd love to have them both in the same car, alongside TK, but I think it would be too big a risk in a long race.
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