Where do I start if I want to start racing?
Discussion
Hey guys
Been reading around the forums after getting interested in racing.
I am currently 21, just over 1 year with road licence and have my first track day coming up in August (just a drive 3 cars experience type deal at palmer motorsport, M3, Atom, Caterham)
If I like the day and put some more research in I was looking at going for a Spec B Licence, seems it will cost around £400 for the day and test plus the starter pack.
I assume after i get this its all down to me to get a car, but then I cant find a good list of races to enter, I understand it that B is required for most races then after 6 you can Apple for A? or do you get A upon request? I know you dont really need it but would you not just get it anyway?
So I wanted to know what sort of race series I can look into, my roadcar is shocking due to insurance for people my age but I am a sensible driver and would like to try out racing as a test of my ability and as a competitive sport. Thought I am not entirely aware of all costs associated.
Thanks for some advice, links etc on this topic just to help me clarify and set out some goals and objectives to get me going!
Been reading around the forums after getting interested in racing.
I am currently 21, just over 1 year with road licence and have my first track day coming up in August (just a drive 3 cars experience type deal at palmer motorsport, M3, Atom, Caterham)
If I like the day and put some more research in I was looking at going for a Spec B Licence, seems it will cost around £400 for the day and test plus the starter pack.
I assume after i get this its all down to me to get a car, but then I cant find a good list of races to enter, I understand it that B is required for most races then after 6 you can Apple for A? or do you get A upon request? I know you dont really need it but would you not just get it anyway?
So I wanted to know what sort of race series I can look into, my roadcar is shocking due to insurance for people my age but I am a sensible driver and would like to try out racing as a test of my ability and as a competitive sport. Thought I am not entirely aware of all costs associated.
Thanks for some advice, links etc on this topic just to help me clarify and set out some goals and objectives to get me going!
Defcon5 said:
Motor racing is very very expensive.
I suggest getting number of trackdays under your belt before applying for licenses etc
thanks, i do understand this however wanted some details. I dont really mean full race series but dont you need a licence just for track days? and the licence is pretty cheap. Its more the entry, car and associated costs im interested in since I know theres specific series for types of cars. Im just trying to get informed at the moment I suggest getting number of trackdays under your belt before applying for licenses etc
You dont need a license for trackdays.
This will be your best bet I think http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/
This will be your best bet I think http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/
Defcon5 said:
You dont need a license for trackdays.
This will be your best bet I think http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/
that looks really good for the price, This will be your best bet I think http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/
In terms of cars is it as simple as buying a MX5 or something like that budget and speccing the cage, extinguisher etc?
If your doing track days like that dosent it make sense to get a licence just to build up your 6 points?
infernouk said:
that looks really good for the price,
In terms of cars is it as simple as buying a MX5 or something like that budget and speccing the cage, extinguisher etc?
If your doing track days like that dosent it make sense to get a licence just to build up your 6 points?
For the trackday trophy you need a B license, as its a race series.In terms of cars is it as simple as buying a MX5 or something like that budget and speccing the cage, extinguisher etc?
If your doing track days like that dosent it make sense to get a licence just to build up your 6 points?
Its the next step up from a trackday basically
Defcon5 said:
For the trackday trophy you need a B license, as its a race series.
Its the next step up from a trackday basically
right so you would recommend a couple of track days then a Spec B then move to the trackday trophy ? Its the next step up from a trackday basically
And it dosent make sense to go for licence then races to get your 6 points and save the money you would spend on track days before for after the licence?
You'll want to do a fair few track days before you'll be comfortable enough in the car on a track, before you think about adding competitive driving into the mix. If you want to go racing as cheaply as possible, try and pick up a car that's already been prepped (it'll be much cheaper that way), and use that for track days until you are comfortable taking the car to the limit and keeping it there.
davepoth said:
You'll want to do a fair few track days before you'll be comfortable enough in the car on a track, before you think about adding competitive driving into the mix. If you want to go racing as cheaply as possible, try and pick up a car that's already been prepped (it'll be much cheaper that way), and use that for track days until you are comfortable taking the car to the limit and keeping it there.
ok so dont get a licence, just buy a cheap track ready car and do track days? It just seems to me getting the licence will provide me with info and education that will help me on regular track days and make me a generally safer and better driver on the track days. regardless if i go into racing after or go and do an amount of track days until I am comfortable.
Would something like a stripped out Mk1 MR2 be ok? If its just for experience id probably just get an old £1Kish car and run that for experience. What associated costs are there otherwise apart from car repairs and entry costs?
infernouk said:
ok so dont get a licence, just buy a cheap track ready car and do track days?
It just seems to me getting the licence will provide me with info and education that will help me on regular track days and make me a generally safer and better driver on the track days. regardless if i go into racing after or go and do an amount of track days until I am comfortable.
Would something like a stripped out Mk1 MR2 be ok? If its just for experience id probably just get an old £1Kish car and run that for experience. What associated costs are there otherwise apart from car repairs and entry costs?
you probably need to at least double your budget to get something ready to race.It just seems to me getting the licence will provide me with info and education that will help me on regular track days and make me a generally safer and better driver on the track days. regardless if i go into racing after or go and do an amount of track days until I am comfortable.
Would something like a stripped out Mk1 MR2 be ok? If its just for experience id probably just get an old £1Kish car and run that for experience. What associated costs are there otherwise apart from car repairs and entry costs?
harryowl said:
you probably need to at least double your budget to get something ready to race.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-205-GTI-1-6-Trac...Ready to race certainly you will be looking at a bit more, but for track days something like this seems to be eminently suitable. Provided you don't wreck it, you wouldn't lose much money on it at all by ragging it around a track for the summer.
Probably worth looking around the MSA web site.
And this sub-site.
http://www.gomotorsport.net/en-GB/godrive/circuitr...
Have you considered karting as a means to getting some lower cost competitive track time?
And this sub-site.
http://www.gomotorsport.net/en-GB/godrive/circuitr...
Have you considered karting as a means to getting some lower cost competitive track time?
OK
1) Track Days, only require a normal driving licence and no requirements for the car, i.e rol cage but you can fit one if you want.
pros, cheap use anything you like
cons, no competition, no timing, no racing.
2)
To do this you need a licence.. you start with a national B ( spec B is something on the playstation!). A national B is good enough for 90% of racing in the uk so dont worry about upgrading it to national A, most people do but its only for the odd uk organised race at spa and bragging rights...
To get a national B you need to do the following
1) Buy the ards pack. this contains blue book, video and licence and medical forms circa £65 ( from msa or demon tweeks)
2) Take ards test. this is a written test and a few laps in a car to make sure your not a total muppet. ( circa £400)
3) take medical 50-100 quid depending on your GP
4) apply for licence circa £60
You now have a shiny new national B race Licence. You can now go on test days where timing is allowed, and the car should have basic safety equipment although there is no scrutineering. THis is basically the same as a track day but timing is allowed, and there are no rules. so you will get a radical slinging it up the inside as you turn in.
You now need
a) Helmet
b) race Suit
c) Gloves
d) Boots
e) race car
racing car you can either buy, build or hire.. look around for a series your interested in. i.e. what type of car do you want to race, fwd, rwd, single seater, GT, saloon etc etc the car will depend on your budget. you can hire an mx5 on a race day for 600-700 per day plus insurance/damage and entry fees, or something like my V8 Tuscan for 1500-2k alternativley you can buy something like a stock hatch xr2 for a couple of grand. It'll never win as the boys at the front still spend s
t loads, but you'll be in the pack and have loads of fun.
once youve decided on what car, and what series/championship you need to join the club i.e. BRSCC ( 150) and then the championship (60-300)
next you need to enter a race which for club level will be circa 200 for a single qually and race and 360 for a double header, and that will vary by circuit and organising club.
AS for licences, every time you finish a race, and the Clerk of the course doesnt see you doing anything stupid, you'll get a signature on your upgrade card, once you get to 6 signatures ( this could take more than 6 races as if you fail to finish even on the last lap no signature) you can take off the novice cross and if you like upgrade to a national A licence either then or on renewal, although as i said if your just running in a uk championship not a lot of point unless your working towards something specifuc.
Have fun
G
1) Track Days, only require a normal driving licence and no requirements for the car, i.e rol cage but you can fit one if you want.
pros, cheap use anything you like
cons, no competition, no timing, no racing.
2)
To do this you need a licence.. you start with a national B ( spec B is something on the playstation!). A national B is good enough for 90% of racing in the uk so dont worry about upgrading it to national A, most people do but its only for the odd uk organised race at spa and bragging rights...
To get a national B you need to do the following
1) Buy the ards pack. this contains blue book, video and licence and medical forms circa £65 ( from msa or demon tweeks)
2) Take ards test. this is a written test and a few laps in a car to make sure your not a total muppet. ( circa £400)
3) take medical 50-100 quid depending on your GP
4) apply for licence circa £60
You now have a shiny new national B race Licence. You can now go on test days where timing is allowed, and the car should have basic safety equipment although there is no scrutineering. THis is basically the same as a track day but timing is allowed, and there are no rules. so you will get a radical slinging it up the inside as you turn in.
You now need
a) Helmet
b) race Suit
c) Gloves
d) Boots
e) race car
racing car you can either buy, build or hire.. look around for a series your interested in. i.e. what type of car do you want to race, fwd, rwd, single seater, GT, saloon etc etc the car will depend on your budget. you can hire an mx5 on a race day for 600-700 per day plus insurance/damage and entry fees, or something like my V8 Tuscan for 1500-2k alternativley you can buy something like a stock hatch xr2 for a couple of grand. It'll never win as the boys at the front still spend s
t loads, but you'll be in the pack and have loads of fun.once youve decided on what car, and what series/championship you need to join the club i.e. BRSCC ( 150) and then the championship (60-300)
next you need to enter a race which for club level will be circa 200 for a single qually and race and 360 for a double header, and that will vary by circuit and organising club.
AS for licences, every time you finish a race, and the Clerk of the course doesnt see you doing anything stupid, you'll get a signature on your upgrade card, once you get to 6 signatures ( this could take more than 6 races as if you fail to finish even on the last lap no signature) you can take off the novice cross and if you like upgrade to a national A licence either then or on renewal, although as i said if your just running in a uk championship not a lot of point unless your working towards something specifuc.
Have fun
G
Edited by Graham on Friday 8th June 09:52
infernouk said:
Where do I start if I want to start racing?
The race track!If I may be frank, you don't know enough about what you want to do. There are hundreds of series you can race in, the majority are strictly regulated with regards to what car you can enter in (Make, Model, Engine size, production year etc etc)
My advice would be that if you are buying a track day car so that you can ultimately go racing, buy the right car to begin with- i.e. if you ultimately want to end up racing MX-5s, buy an MX-5 which conforms to that series' regulations, trackday it, develop it, learn to drive it, then go racing in it. It'll cost you a fortune if you have to change cars.
You need a plan. I suggest you start going to your nearest race circuit at the weekends, get around the paddock, look at cars, meet people, and make an informed decision about which series you want to go racing in. Then find out if there are any racing cars for sale...
Re: Trackday Trophy- well, I prefer single spec racing personally. If you are on a strict budget, you need to be competing against others with the same budget or at least have regulations to prevent the rich folk spending a fortune on their cars to make them go quicker.
I am racing on a budget of £6k/season and some of my competitors are multi-millionnaires. The reason I can be competetive is that the cars are the same spec and no advantage can be bought.
Edited by HustleRussell on Friday 8th June 09:32
infernouk said:
ok so dont get a licence, just buy a cheap track ready car and do track days?
It just seems to me getting the licence will provide me with info and education that will help me on regular track days and make me a generally safer and better driver on the track days. regardless if i go into racing after or go and do an amount of track days until I am comfortable.
Would something like a stripped out Mk1 MR2 be ok? If its just for experience id probably just get an old £1Kish car and run that for experience. What associated costs are there otherwise apart from car repairs and entry costs?
Just to clear up a few (possible) misconceptions, lets start with the basics.It just seems to me getting the licence will provide me with info and education that will help me on regular track days and make me a generally safer and better driver on the track days. regardless if i go into racing after or go and do an amount of track days until I am comfortable.
Would something like a stripped out Mk1 MR2 be ok? If its just for experience id probably just get an old £1Kish car and run that for experience. What associated costs are there otherwise apart from car repairs and entry costs?
To do trackdays, you just need your road license (and a car, of course, although more or less anything would do to get started).
When you do your trackdays, when you're starting out, arrange for an instructor to sit in with you for the first session or two (arrange through trackday operator, or ask on here for suitable 'bods'). Allow for this extra cost, but in your situation, with very little road driving experience and apparently no track time, it'll be money well spent.
WHEN the time comes to consider racing, you need to contact the MSA (easy via their website) and buy a 'Go Racing' pack, which includes all the info you need to move to the next step, which is to do your ARDS test. This is a test of basic profiency behind the wheel, but more importantly you have to show a knowledge of trackcraft, flag signals, etc. to an instructor on the appointed day. Venues all over the country, so no real hassle involved in getting it done and tbh I've never heard of anyone failing it (unless you throw the car off the track during the assessment, they don't like that much!!)
This gives you a National B (Race) license which allows you to take part in mosst race meetings in the UK with a novice cross displayed on the car. You then need to do a further five (I think) meetings, keeping your nose clean and not being a danger to yourself or anyone else. At each of these, get a signature from the Clerk of the Course, or the Stewards (cant remember who does the actual signing) and once you have sufficient, you upgrade your National B provisional to a full National B.(novice cross removed)
Then after a further six events, you can if you wish upgrade to a National A (Race), but in truth, if you're doing clubbies, you dont need to, and it just costs more to renew. Its only if you get as far as the TOCA racecard, or British championships of whatever flavour, that you'll need National A.
So, in a nutshell, do a couple of trackdays and see how you get on. DO NOT BUY A CAR YET. Hire one from the trackday company if you must. DO GET INSTRUCTION IN THE EARLY DAYS.
If you think its too expensive to do the above, you're not cut out for it.
If you think that you'll be driving for Ferrari in a year or two, you're not cut out for it.
If you get involved, chat to people, learn, don't over reach your or your cars abilities too soon and most of all ENJOY IT, then maybe, just maybe you'll stick with it and I'll see you around the circuits in a year or so!!
I look forward to it.
Kim
ETA Pretty much all covered above by Graham - beat me to it!!
Kim
Edited by kimducati on Friday 8th June 09:32
Edited by kimducati on Friday 8th June 09:36
And do not for a moment allow yourself to believe that you are actually any good.
Not until you know you are and your speed demonstrates it.
I thought I was pretty good. Until I tried to take it seriously.
Then I learned that I am at best average and on a bad day, I'm pretty crap. Motor sport can be quite humbling.
It still fun though !! Beats golf.
Not until you know you are and your speed demonstrates it.
I thought I was pretty good. Until I tried to take it seriously.
Then I learned that I am at best average and on a bad day, I'm pretty crap. Motor sport can be quite humbling.
It still fun though !! Beats golf.
hey guys thanks for the tips.
Im only really interested in your average road car racing, so i like the old 3 series and jap coupes as well as hatches.
SO the ebst plan is to on track days, rent a car. Get instruction (I assume its like driving lessons again but at a faster speed!) then after a few of them take the licence test and get my own car?
Is it better to rent a car or buy a really cheap one to start? any idea how much i should set aside for everything up to passing my Nat B and getting the first Car?
I know im not going to win anything etc, its more of just something to do with my time and money and if i can beat my personal records thats got to be as good as winning! im not one of those mental boy racers who drive like this on the street (I have a 1.0l Corsa!)
Im only really interested in your average road car racing, so i like the old 3 series and jap coupes as well as hatches.
SO the ebst plan is to on track days, rent a car. Get instruction (I assume its like driving lessons again but at a faster speed!) then after a few of them take the licence test and get my own car?
Is it better to rent a car or buy a really cheap one to start? any idea how much i should set aside for everything up to passing my Nat B and getting the first Car?
I know im not going to win anything etc, its more of just something to do with my time and money and if i can beat my personal records thats got to be as good as winning! im not one of those mental boy racers who drive like this on the street (I have a 1.0l Corsa!)
I'd suggest your best plan is to find out when the bmw championships are running..
the 750mc bmw compact might be one to look at, I cant remember the other cheap bmw series off the top of my head, and then there is the kumho series.
Talk to the guys, see what the competition is like, and how much the cars cost. the compact series is heavily regulated with stock motors etc.
and decide from there..
you not necc need to do track days first I didnt my first time on the track was for my ards test, I then did one track day in my Chimaera, one track day in the race car and then raced at Cadwell !!
that was 12 years ago and a title under my belt so it cant have been all bad
G
edited to say, in some ways only having had a road licence for 12 months is a bonus, as you've had less time to get into bad habits!!! track driving although has little to do with pointing a car down the road on your way to work.. You realise that the first time you race on a wet track, an wonder why it feels like your on ice... the reason of course being because you are pushing much harder than you would on the road.
the 750mc bmw compact might be one to look at, I cant remember the other cheap bmw series off the top of my head, and then there is the kumho series.
Talk to the guys, see what the competition is like, and how much the cars cost. the compact series is heavily regulated with stock motors etc.
and decide from there..
you not necc need to do track days first I didnt my first time on the track was for my ards test, I then did one track day in my Chimaera, one track day in the race car and then raced at Cadwell !!
that was 12 years ago and a title under my belt so it cant have been all bad
G
edited to say, in some ways only having had a road licence for 12 months is a bonus, as you've had less time to get into bad habits!!! track driving although has little to do with pointing a car down the road on your way to work.. You realise that the first time you race on a wet track, an wonder why it feels like your on ice... the reason of course being because you are pushing much harder than you would on the road.
Graham said:
I'd suggest your best plan is to find out when the bmw championships are running..
the 750mc bmw compact might be one to look at, I cant remember the other cheap bmw series off the top of my head, and then there is the kumho series.
Talk to the guys, see what the competition is like, and how much the cars cost. the compact series is heavily regulated with stock motors etc.
and decide from there..
you not necc need to do track days first I didnt my first time on the track was for my ards test, I then did one track day in my Chimaera, one track day in the race car and then raced at Cadwell !!
that was 12 years ago and a title under my belt so it cant have been all bad
G
yeah, i would rather get the licence as my first thing then do some track days before i entered a race,get a cheap car i want to race in a practice on track days with it. but havint he licence first i think could only help with my knowledge for track days rather than getting the experience then the licence the 750mc bmw compact might be one to look at, I cant remember the other cheap bmw series off the top of my head, and then there is the kumho series.
Talk to the guys, see what the competition is like, and how much the cars cost. the compact series is heavily regulated with stock motors etc.
and decide from there..
you not necc need to do track days first I didnt my first time on the track was for my ards test, I then did one track day in my Chimaera, one track day in the race car and then raced at Cadwell !!
that was 12 years ago and a title under my belt so it cant have been all bad
G
out of interest is insurance required? My road car insurance for year 1 was £2200 and now is £850 for a 1.0l car so im very wary of those kinds of additional cost...
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