Time to drop the blue flag rule?

[mattikake]

Today's little incident with Vettel and Hamilton pointed out another issue with the 3 waved blue flag penalty/rule - that it's incompatible with older and more traditional rules of F1 [that a driver should be able to unlap himself].

The blue flag rule was only introduced because overtaking was so hard from around the late 90's to mid 00's. KERS, DRS and Pirelli have made the rule obsolete.

I did chuckle at the thought of Hamilton being allowed to pass Vettel, only to be given 3 marshall's posts to let Vettel repass him... only for Hamilton to be allowed to overtake again... divide by zero face-palms un all that.

Maybe it's time to instill some gentlemanly conduct amongst drivers again, but putting it back to a gentleman's decision... and a risk and skill for the leaders?

btw, yes Horner's inability to accept the older traditions of F1 versus his driver scoring well, really did make him out to be an irritating ignorant self-obsessed tosser (for the first time in my eyes). But then, sooner or later, aren't we all?

What say you?

[marshalla]

Agreed. Passing back markers is a lost art and should be a necessary skill.

[The Penguin]

mattikake said:

I did chuckle at the thought of Hamilton being allowed to pass Vettel, only to be given 3 marshall's posts to let Vettel repass him... only for Hamilton to be allowed to overtake again... divide by zero face-palms un all that. :Dl

That would only be the case if Lewis was slower. The fact that Lewis was quicker sould mean the blue flag shouldn't have been waved.

[Some Gump]

Nah, you need the 3 flag rule, or muppets in HRT's get in the way too much.

A driver unlapping himself is a rare event, and is covered by the current rule - i.e Hamilton was fine to do what he did, but if vettel cought him he'd have to yield.

[marshalla]

Some Gump said:

Nah, you need the 3 flag rule, or muppets in HRT's get in the way too much.

Covered by KERS, DRS and existing rules on movements.

[MissChief]

It's usually to alert a slower driver that a faster car is arriving. It just happens to be that it's usually the leader and then the rest of the field. In this case Hamilton was faster than Vettel so once he got past there was no need for the flags.

[mondeoman]

As Hamilton was quicker, should Vettel have been blue flagged??

[37chevy]

doogz said:

No, the blue flag is to let you know you are about to be lapped. You wouldn't show it to a driver that's not about to be lapped.

technically incorrect. the blue flag is to show that a faster driver is coming up behind you....usually when you are being lapped but not always the case!!

[P-Jay]

Don't think so, a once in a blue moon incident doesn't justify a rule change.

You could argue passing back-markers is a skill, but it's not a level playing field, especially with F1 being closer than ever. The leader could find himself coming up behind a HRT in a complex and lose 2 seconds only to have the 2nd place guy come up behind the same car on a long straight and breeze past without losing any time.

Plus there will always be some cocky new guy in a backrow car looking to show the big teams he can pedal with the best of them by defending against a leader and end up punting the pair of them off the track.

[robmlufc]

Works a bit different in sports car racing, blue flag is just to let the slower car know a car is coming up behind. They don't have to get out of the way though.

[mattikake]

P-Jay said:

Don't think so, a once in a blue moon incident doesn't justify a rule change.

Are you sure about that? Knee-jerk reactions seem to be what humans are best at. Why change form?

P-Jay said:

You could argue passing back-markers is a skill, but it's not a level playing field, especially with F1 being closer than ever. The leader could find himself coming up behind a HRT in a complex and lose 2 seconds only to have the 2nd place guy come up behind the same car on a long straight and breeze past without losing any time.

So? That's how it had been for 40 years, until someone decided overtaking was too hard. F1 is not a level playing field. Just when you come across a backmarker affects all in the same way. Sometimes you get them on a straight, sometimes in the twisties. It all tends to balance out. The skill is to learn to deal with them quickly, to not let it affect you mentally or even use them to your advantage. Time when you want to get past. Deal with not being able to.

P-Jay said:

Plus there will always be some cocky new guy in a backrow car looking to show the big teams he can pedal with the best of them by defending against a leader and end up punting the pair of them off the track.

And this is the developing problem with F1 - the attitude. The loss of the gentlemans agreement on-track. There's only one way to become a gentleman, and that's to learn to behave like one. Post-race bans would do it. Good-old fisticuffs in the pits is more effective.

[FourWheelDrift]

They should replace the blue flag with a little red laser sighting dot, that'll make the HRTs go faster.

[37chevy]

doogz said:

"Blue flag
Warns a driver that he is about to be lapped and to let the faster car overtake. Pass three blue flags without complying and the driver risks being penalised. Blue lights are also displayed at the end of the pit lane when the pit exit is open and a car on track is approaching."

That's from formula1.com.

Maybe you should e-mail them, tell them they've got their rules wrong.

check the blue/black books from the MSA....it is as i have said....im assuming f1.com have just put it in simple terms for fans.

[Dan Friel]

Blue flag rules for F1 are different to other motorsport, but still open to "interpretation" - as required on Sunday. In F1 you have to obey a blue flag in racing, whereas it's just a warning flag in other series.

[lord summerisle]

37chevy said:

check the blue/black books from the MSA....it is as i have said....im assuming f1.com have just put it in simple terms for fans.

indeed - there are significant differences between the Flag rules in the MSA blue book governing British Motorsport, The FIA events and Formula 1 specific rules.

For instance, FIA flag rules are that ALL flags are waved (excepth the change of surface flag which is stationary) where as MSA rules are flags can be stationary or waved depending on the situation (stationary or waved yellow)

F1 have an additional rule in which the lapped driver must yeild after passing 3 blue flag signals.

In other sport except F1: Blue flag simply means, check your mirrors a faster car is approaching.

To take the example of a 24hr britcar race: should a Mosler be approaching the Honda Civic, i would be waving the blue fag very vigourously - no matter if that mosler was dead last after being out for several hours with mechanical issues: he still has a closing speed of around 100mph+ in many sections of the track, and the driver ahead should be warned

[Z3MCJez]

robmlufc said:

Works a bit different in sports car racing, blue flag is just to let the slower car know a car is coming up behind. They don't have to get out of the way though.

The blue flag text is different in the MSA blue book from the F1 rule.

Jez

[stephen300o]

Lapped cars being faster is quite rare, but then Lewis was just being used to get in the way, as his banzai laps destroyed his tyres.
In the main, lapped cars should be encouraged out of the way,

[37chevy]

stephen300o said:

Lapped cars being faster is quite rare, but then Lewis was just being used to get in the way, as his banzai laps destroyed his tyres.
In the main, lapped cars should be encouraged out of the way,

in f1 yes....in nascar or any other motorsport people unlap eachother a fair bit

[colonel c]

I don't see any problem with Hamilton's move. He was faster at the time. The leaders were holding him up, simple. Different story if he'd got in front and then slowed down to allow his teammate to catch up but as he was not in a 'Red car' that would have been unlikely.

[FourWheelDrift]

Horner has said there was nothing wrong with unlapping yourself. It's all part of the race.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101457