Mclaren should stick to one No 1 driver
Discussion
One would have thought that the friction that Mclaren had when Senna and Prost were in the same team that they are on to a looser having 2 no 1 drivers .
Ok maybe when they captured Alonso they did not exspect Lewis to be so quick in his first season but failing to control the situation cost them the championship that year.
The next 2 seasons were ok having Kovi as a No 2 and a championship one.
They then go and throw a spanner in the works by bringing in JB as equal no 1 . This has no doubt gradually got up Hamiltons nose having what he probally regarded his team gradually taken over.
They both seem to have different driving styles and the basic car design must be a compromise what with Jenson needing the car 100% to drive where as Lewis seems to be able to adapt more.
So this driver pairing has won a fair few races but no championship yet again.
So its highly likely with the promise of No1 status , A shed full of money and the very best Mercedes works engine to boot, Hamilton will leave.
If this happens Mclaren should concentrate on Jenson and have a proper no2 driver who can back him up.
Both Shuey and Alonso made sure that Ferrari had a No 2 driver to help them not fight them.
Ok maybe when they captured Alonso they did not exspect Lewis to be so quick in his first season but failing to control the situation cost them the championship that year.
The next 2 seasons were ok having Kovi as a No 2 and a championship one.
They then go and throw a spanner in the works by bringing in JB as equal no 1 . This has no doubt gradually got up Hamiltons nose having what he probally regarded his team gradually taken over.
They both seem to have different driving styles and the basic car design must be a compromise what with Jenson needing the car 100% to drive where as Lewis seems to be able to adapt more.
So this driver pairing has won a fair few races but no championship yet again.
So its highly likely with the promise of No1 status , A shed full of money and the very best Mercedes works engine to boot, Hamilton will leave.
If this happens Mclaren should concentrate on Jenson and have a proper no2 driver who can back him up.
Both Shuey and Alonso made sure that Ferrari had a No 2 driver to help them not fight them.
I don't agree they should start a season as Number 1 Number 2 driver,however as the season pans out and if a driver is clearly ahead in the points they should consider asking the driver who is behind and has no chance of a championship to slot into a number 2 place for the remainder of the season.
It would be very difficult asking Jenson or Lewis to do this to be honest,being told to f
k off often offends 
It would be very difficult asking Jenson or Lewis to do this to be honest,being told to f
k off often offends The indication in the title is that they have a No 1 driver. McLaren haven't done this and for very good reason. As said above, they are aiming for the constructors title. They do run the drivers on as equal terms as possible and only when one has no chance of the title will they get the other to support, which is entirely the right thing to do in my opinion. Ferrari in 1999 was a classic example of why this is a good way to run, but of course 2007 showed why it doesn't always work - McLaren did win* the constructors championship that year, however.
- Provided you count a win as the team getting the highest number of points, rather than being the team Max Mosley decided should be the winner regardless of performance during the year.
Never understood the theory behind the number 2 driver thing, the fundamental idea being to employ a driver less capable that you can get, on the off-chance they might occasionally being able to work as a blocker / slipstream for your Number 1, or at very least move aside should this less capable driver should they find themselves ahead of them. Or have I missed the point?
Frankly from what I've seen the number 2 driver tag has only really been used to stroke the Ego of some Prima donna 'number 1' driver.
Frankly from what I've seen the number 2 driver tag has only really been used to stroke the Ego of some Prima donna 'number 1' driver.
Since Lewis and Jenson have been team mates Jenson has taken points off Lewis 12 times:
Twice in 2012
Seven times in 2011 (and finished ahead in the championship)
Three times in 2010
And only 3 times has Jenson finished directly in front of Lewis (China 2012, China and Japan 2010). But obviously having a clear number 2 would give one driver favourable strategy in every race.
Twice in 2012
Seven times in 2011 (and finished ahead in the championship)
Three times in 2010
And only 3 times has Jenson finished directly in front of Lewis (China 2012, China and Japan 2010). But obviously having a clear number 2 would give one driver favourable strategy in every race.
Mr_Thyroid said:
Since Lewis and Jenson have been team mates Jenson has taken points off Lewis 12 times:
Twice in 2012
Seven times in 2011 (and finished ahead in the championship)
Three times in 2010
And only 3 times has Jenson finished directly in front of Lewis (China 2012, China and Japan 2010). But obviously having a clear number 2 would give one driver favourable strategy in every race.
Ok. To balance that out, how many times has Lewis taken points from Jenson?Twice in 2012
Seven times in 2011 (and finished ahead in the championship)
Three times in 2010
And only 3 times has Jenson finished directly in front of Lewis (China 2012, China and Japan 2010). But obviously having a clear number 2 would give one driver favourable strategy in every race.
When did Mclaren last win a Constructors title ? Red Bull are slightly different as despite what Mark may think its Vettles team and they have had a very dominent car even so they nearly let Alonso nick it of them a couple of years ago.
One of the first things Jenson latched on to is that Macs are very suspect regarding in race strategy calls and seems to make alot of tyre calls himself where as Lewis relies on the team and they have made a pigs ears of them a few times.
Also Lewis failed to notice how ruthless Jenson could be ,Thinking about when JB jumped him while they were cruising to a 1/2 when the Red bulls had taken themselves out and putting him in the wall in Canada.
I hope for Macs sake that they can keep hold of him for to lose him to Mercedes would be a shame and you can bet your life he will have the very best engines against the customer units they will have.
But as Prost once said you cant have two bulls in one field!
One of the first things Jenson latched on to is that Macs are very suspect regarding in race strategy calls and seems to make alot of tyre calls himself where as Lewis relies on the team and they have made a pigs ears of them a few times.
Also Lewis failed to notice how ruthless Jenson could be ,Thinking about when JB jumped him while they were cruising to a 1/2 when the Red bulls had taken themselves out and putting him in the wall in Canada.
I hope for Macs sake that they can keep hold of him for to lose him to Mercedes would be a shame and you can bet your life he will have the very best engines against the customer units they will have.
But as Prost once said you cant have two bulls in one field!
Life Saab Itch said:
Mr_Thyroid said:
Since Lewis and Jenson have been team mates Jenson has taken points off Lewis 12 times:
Twice in 2012
Seven times in 2011 (and finished ahead in the championship)
Three times in 2010
And only 3 times has Jenson finished directly in front of Lewis (China 2012, China and Japan 2010). But obviously having a clear number 2 would give one driver favourable strategy in every race.
Ok. To balance that out, how many times has Lewis taken points from Jenson?Twice in 2012
Seven times in 2011 (and finished ahead in the championship)
Three times in 2010
And only 3 times has Jenson finished directly in front of Lewis (China 2012, China and Japan 2010). But obviously having a clear number 2 would give one driver favourable strategy in every race.
3 in 2012
7 in 2011
9 in 2012
Lewis has finished directly in front of Lewis 8 times - does this mean Lewis is more likely to win in a straight fight?
Dunit said:
When did Mclaren last win a Constructors title ? Red Bull are slightly different as despite what Mark may think its Vettles team and they have had a very dominent car even so they nearly let Alonso nick it of them a couple of years ago.
One of the first things Jenson latched on to is that Macs are very suspect regarding in race strategy calls and seems to make alot of tyre calls himself where as Lewis relies on the team and they have made a pigs ears of them a few times.
Also Lewis failed to notice how ruthless Jenson could be ,Thinking about when JB jumped him while they were cruising to a 1/2 when the Red bulls had taken themselves out and putting him in the wall in Canada.
I hope for Macs sake that they can keep hold of him for to lose him to Mercedes would be a shame and you can bet your life he will have the very best engines against the customer units they will have.
But as Prost once said you cant have two bulls in one field!
A couple of corrections there...One of the first things Jenson latched on to is that Macs are very suspect regarding in race strategy calls and seems to make alot of tyre calls himself where as Lewis relies on the team and they have made a pigs ears of them a few times.
Also Lewis failed to notice how ruthless Jenson could be ,Thinking about when JB jumped him while they were cruising to a 1/2 when the Red bulls had taken themselves out and putting him in the wall in Canada.
I hope for Macs sake that they can keep hold of him for to lose him to Mercedes would be a shame and you can bet your life he will have the very best engines against the customer units they will have.
But as Prost once said you cant have two bulls in one field!
Jenson didnt take Lewis out in Canada 2011. Lewis went for a decreasing gap that was only ever going to disappear. Lewis was at fault there, not Jenson. They weren't cruising to a 1-2 finish in turkey 2010, they were still racing. Lewis asked if Jenson would overtake him if he turned his engine down to conserve fuel, he was told no but no-one had the foresight to tell Jenson this. No team orders at McLaren, therefore Jenson was well within his rights to overtake. It was actually a wonderful display of how team mates can and should race, that was put on just after Vettel had taken Webber out and Dr Markko was already blaming Webber.
Mr_Thyroid said:
Lewis has finished directly in front of Lewis 8 times - does this mean Lewis is more likely to win in a straight fight?
maybe this is where he's going wrong!Seriously though: having a defined No 2 driver is limiting for the team as rarely can he actually 'help' his team leader (other than times like 'Fernando is faster than you....')
Ironically a thread that has also popped up today is one remembering Ronnie Peterson - the ultimate No 2 driver - fast enough to win but played his part for Mario. A No 2 that is not fast enough to win (assuming a win capable car) is the waste of a car.
But, as some seem to be implying, effectively McLaren should have stuck with Heikki (or similar) and concentrated on Lewis; he has said himself that he doesn't want any 'help', he wants to win the championship because he's quickest, not because of any tricks or shuffles.
Dunit said:
The next 2 seasons were ok having Kovi as a No 2 and a championship one.
The problem with Heikki was that he was just too far behind, and in 2008 that badly comprised a very realistic shot at the constructor's championship. By the end of the year Heikki was 7th in the driver's championship with about half the points haul of Lewis.Ferrari have the same issue now with Massa. Yes, there are benefits to having a clear number two, but for a team that has a driver with a 37 point lead in the driver's championship to be back in 3rd in the constructor's with a 46 point deficit (4th until recently), something clearly isn't working.
Ocassionally it works well. The trouble is to have a good number two, you need a truly exceptional number 1*.
McLaren made it work very well with Gerhard Berger (comparable to the other drivers on the grid, Mansell excepted) and Ayrton Senna. Berger seemed to accept he was second best.
McLaren made it work very well with Gerhard Berger (comparable to the other drivers on the grid, Mansell excepted) and Ayrton Senna. Berger seemed to accept he was second best.
- asterixed before they super-fans get in - No Hamilton is very good, not truly exceptional I am afraid.
I have been a Mac fan since the Bruce and Denny show in Can Am and thinking back their best driver pairing with out doubt was Mika and Dc . David by his own admission did not have the outright speed of Mika but was capable of winning and scoring good points.
Lauda and watson was good as well, But Mcl were very lucky in the Lauda/ Prost and Prost/ Senna years they had a very dominent car that they were allways fighting for 1st and 2nd.
Best No2 driver by far was Reubens in his Fezza years and he did try and put matters right at Brawn but by then Jenson was a far stronger personallity and this in the end prevailed.
Kimi has prooved you do not have to win races with the new points system, look where he is in the championship.
To go 13 years without a Championship is far to long
Lauda and watson was good as well, But Mcl were very lucky in the Lauda/ Prost and Prost/ Senna years they had a very dominent car that they were allways fighting for 1st and 2nd.
Best No2 driver by far was Reubens in his Fezza years and he did try and put matters right at Brawn but by then Jenson was a far stronger personallity and this in the end prevailed.
Kimi has prooved you do not have to win races with the new points system, look where he is in the championship.
To go 13 years without a Championship is far to long
Edited by Dunit on Wednesday 12th September 09:22
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