Motorsport and noise restrictions/Britcar championship/24hr
Discussion
I've just been reading several of the topics under the Britcar heading and as a Britcar championship and 24hr competitor for the last 5/6 years, not without an element of success, I have to state here and now that although there are lessons to be learnt by Britcar as a result of problems and issues arising from both the 2012 championship and the very recent 24hr race, they are not the ones to blame for the real problems which we tend to ignore in preference for the easier target of the series organiser. The vast majority of the Britcar competitor issues can be ironed out and resolved,for most of these problems are within Britcar's capability to so do, it will take a touch more imagination, a leap or two of faith and above all a totally customer focused agenda.
A far bigger problem is the people who control the race track facilities, I appreciate they are business concerns in the main and they are set to make money or kudos for their owners, shareholders or privileged membership. Silverstone for one is not really that interested in Britcar or 24hr racing as firstly, we're a bit club like, don't really fit the mould, and in effect, hail from the wrong side of the tracks. If one had to pick the one track in the UK that is renowned for it's elitism, it's the home of British F1 and all that this entails, so don't be surprised if their backing has it's limits as they are not going to push or harm their good relationships for Britcar or any other "club" like series. There are ways to deal with these track owners but it would take one hell of a lot of organisation,time and effort to even get a chance of a fairer deal and i doubt if competitors alone could achieve any meaningful headway.
By far the biggest and most dangerous threat to Motorsport is the noise limits that the Nimbys have slowly but surely been imposing by insidious, politically correct maneuvering conducted by the same sort of people that are out to stop us doing almost everything they don't agree with, hell these overbearing bigoted pious tree huggers are our own breed of Taliban and it won't be too long before you will be stoned in the street for driving a petrol engined car with a decibel reading of over 25 !!!. We know it's happening, yet we almost ignore it, thinking that at a certain level they must be content that they have negotiated a compromise. Wrong, Wrong Wrong, these people will not rest until motorsport is no more, they don't want agreements or deals or compromise, they want our sport.
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
What we need is a counter attack plan, lets get a deal done with say Silverstone, maybe worth one more chance, but at the same time, we need to work with the right organisation to set up a bloody massive pop festival right on their bloody doorstep, I'll tell you now that you won't hear another word from the numpty's about motorsport as they will be far too busy with a much bigger problem. This is in real terms what we have to do, not exactly as above but working on the principal of creating something far worse from them to worry about. It's called the Martin principal based on the theory that all the worlds problems and issues would cease and regardless of race, colour or creed we would all band together if we were attacked by an interstellar race of flesh eating zombies, i.e. a problem far greater then the one that we are all arguing about will make that issue pale into insignificance !!
Your thoughts gentlemen
A far bigger problem is the people who control the race track facilities, I appreciate they are business concerns in the main and they are set to make money or kudos for their owners, shareholders or privileged membership. Silverstone for one is not really that interested in Britcar or 24hr racing as firstly, we're a bit club like, don't really fit the mould, and in effect, hail from the wrong side of the tracks. If one had to pick the one track in the UK that is renowned for it's elitism, it's the home of British F1 and all that this entails, so don't be surprised if their backing has it's limits as they are not going to push or harm their good relationships for Britcar or any other "club" like series. There are ways to deal with these track owners but it would take one hell of a lot of organisation,time and effort to even get a chance of a fairer deal and i doubt if competitors alone could achieve any meaningful headway.
By far the biggest and most dangerous threat to Motorsport is the noise limits that the Nimbys have slowly but surely been imposing by insidious, politically correct maneuvering conducted by the same sort of people that are out to stop us doing almost everything they don't agree with, hell these overbearing bigoted pious tree huggers are our own breed of Taliban and it won't be too long before you will be stoned in the street for driving a petrol engined car with a decibel reading of over 25 !!!. We know it's happening, yet we almost ignore it, thinking that at a certain level they must be content that they have negotiated a compromise. Wrong, Wrong Wrong, these people will not rest until motorsport is no more, they don't want agreements or deals or compromise, they want our sport.
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
What we need is a counter attack plan, lets get a deal done with say Silverstone, maybe worth one more chance, but at the same time, we need to work with the right organisation to set up a bloody massive pop festival right on their bloody doorstep, I'll tell you now that you won't hear another word from the numpty's about motorsport as they will be far too busy with a much bigger problem. This is in real terms what we have to do, not exactly as above but working on the principal of creating something far worse from them to worry about. It's called the Martin principal based on the theory that all the worlds problems and issues would cease and regardless of race, colour or creed we would all band together if we were attacked by an interstellar race of flesh eating zombies, i.e. a problem far greater then the one that we are all arguing about will make that issue pale into insignificance !!
Your thoughts gentlemen
A radical thought, but if motorsport is proactive and accepts that the challenge of lower noise levels (and maybe reduced fuel consumption) is here to stay and then moves forward within these constraints, promotes the benefits and uses events like the Britcar 24 to show that motorsport is as environmentally responsible as it can be, and at the forefront of developing a few so called "green initatives" the sport we all love may just survive. Maybe it would attract a few more companies or backers and maybe it would be easier to promote.
Accept the challenge; I really don't see the point in trying to force against it like King Canute. As I have said elsewhere, I'd rather be involved in quiet(ish) motorsport than no motorsport at all.
Accept the challenge; I really don't see the point in trying to force against it like King Canute. As I have said elsewhere, I'd rather be involved in quiet(ish) motorsport than no motorsport at all.
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 26th September 10:51
I think the general problem seems to be only in the UK, I can’t comment on the noise regulations and local problems in other countries, but from experience it seems that in general motorsport and the noise it generates is accepted just about every ware else and the local populations actually welcome motorsport.
We talk a lot about motor sport being killed off due to environmental factors (noise) but we are only really talking about the UK...... the problem facing the UK is that although motorsport in general from F1 down to the bottom rung of club racing generates a vast amount of income for the UK.
From overseas investment in companies right down to the money spent in local hotels and shops during a race weekend and even track days.
The problem is that this is often overlooked by the local population and all the focus is on the noise element.
I can understand this mentality, as an example I used to have an off road bike as a kid, we used a local fields to hack round in and we often got complaints, I could never understand this as we had permission to use the fields and our bikes where no that loud. However 40 years later the boot is on the other foot, now I sit in my garden and on occasion the local kids use a field for the same activity and I have to say that I think s
t, what a racket on a Sunday afternoon something should be done to stop this. Then I remember I was the same, the kids are not doing any harm really and they are off the streets and have an interest in something other than smashing the local bus shelters. So I ignore the noise and after a while it’s just something in the background.
Now that’s coming from someone who loves motor sport in all forms so what must it be like for someone who has no interest.
Now I don’t pretend to have any answers to this problem but the simple truth is that if we continue down the road then I believe one of two things will happen.
1: Either race cars will have to be restricted to very low noise levels..... and how low is low.... even road car levels can be really annoying to some just ask anyone who lives near a motorway.
2: Racing will continue at low club level where cars are generally much quieter (or can be made this way easily) and GT cars will be so restricted in the UK they will either stop competing or move to Europe or further afield.
The fundamental issue is that a big part of the atmosphere is the noise of a tuned engine thundering around at full tilt, this stirs something animal in people that is a fundamental part of racing. Without this noise then something is lost and racing becomes a muted affair.
To be honest I don’t think that there will be a solution in the UK as it is already so far down the road that we will never be able to reclaim the ground already lost.
Rod is right...... we are now at the stage when they are coming for us and there is nobody left to speak up for us.
We talk a lot about motor sport being killed off due to environmental factors (noise) but we are only really talking about the UK...... the problem facing the UK is that although motorsport in general from F1 down to the bottom rung of club racing generates a vast amount of income for the UK.
From overseas investment in companies right down to the money spent in local hotels and shops during a race weekend and even track days.
The problem is that this is often overlooked by the local population and all the focus is on the noise element.
I can understand this mentality, as an example I used to have an off road bike as a kid, we used a local fields to hack round in and we often got complaints, I could never understand this as we had permission to use the fields and our bikes where no that loud. However 40 years later the boot is on the other foot, now I sit in my garden and on occasion the local kids use a field for the same activity and I have to say that I think s
t, what a racket on a Sunday afternoon something should be done to stop this. Then I remember I was the same, the kids are not doing any harm really and they are off the streets and have an interest in something other than smashing the local bus shelters. So I ignore the noise and after a while it’s just something in the background.Now that’s coming from someone who loves motor sport in all forms so what must it be like for someone who has no interest.
Now I don’t pretend to have any answers to this problem but the simple truth is that if we continue down the road then I believe one of two things will happen.
1: Either race cars will have to be restricted to very low noise levels..... and how low is low.... even road car levels can be really annoying to some just ask anyone who lives near a motorway.
2: Racing will continue at low club level where cars are generally much quieter (or can be made this way easily) and GT cars will be so restricted in the UK they will either stop competing or move to Europe or further afield.
The fundamental issue is that a big part of the atmosphere is the noise of a tuned engine thundering around at full tilt, this stirs something animal in people that is a fundamental part of racing. Without this noise then something is lost and racing becomes a muted affair.
To be honest I don’t think that there will be a solution in the UK as it is already so far down the road that we will never be able to reclaim the ground already lost.
Rod is right...... we are now at the stage when they are coming for us and there is nobody left to speak up for us.
andy97 said:
A radical thought, but if motorsport is proactive and accepts that the challenge of lower noise levels (and maybe reduced fuel consumption) is here to stay and then moves forward within these constraints, promotes the benefits and uses events like the Britcar 24 to show that motorsport is as environmentally responsible as it can be, and at the forefront of developing a few so called "green initatives" the sport we all love may just survive. Maybe it would attract a few more companies or backers and maybe it would be easier to promote.
Accept the challenge; I really don't see the point in trying to force against it like King Canute. As I have said elsewhere, I'd rather be involved in quiet(ish) motorsport than no motorsport at all.
Well that’s one way to go...... The BIG problem is that most GT cars are designed to run with intake and exhaust systems that are loud, yes they can be changed but for quick GT cars this has 2 penalties.Accept the challenge; I really don't see the point in trying to force against it like King Canute. As I have said elsewhere, I'd rather be involved in quiet(ish) motorsport than no motorsport at all.
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 26th September 10:51
1: Lower performance
2: High cost.
The noise restrictions for road based cars can easily be reached and even improved with a minimal loss of performance so this could work for them.
But do we really want to effectively restrict racing to road based cars as I believe the quick GT guys will simply get there fix in countries that allow them to run.
Edited by chrisb0 on Wednesday 26th September 12:23
The problem can be traced back to the previous governments anti social behaviour laws which have fallen victim to the law of unintended consequences and are now used by anyone with a grievance against anything. This is why all race circuits have to tip toe around local residents who are essentially holding them to ransom.
We can all get angry at the stupidity of people who move next door to a circuit and are then surprised by the noise and try to get the events curtailed but they have the law on their side and the only way to change this is to change the law.
A petition was submitted to the previous government which asked for the law to be changed with regard to all noisy events however it was dismissed by the government who in their response completely missed the point. It would be easy to start another petition focused solely on motorsport and pointing out the vast economic benefits of our industry and the threat such nimbyism poses. Whether we could get the 100,000 signatures required to trigger a parlimentary debate is questionable and frankly even if it was achieved I stongly suspect such a debate would be nothing but lip service.
What is actually required is a co-ordinated campaign group that can lobby parliament directly, this in my opinion is the only way to change anything in this country. Until the industry does this then we will always be at the mercy of those pesky nimbys as well as those who do have the time and resources to lobby parliament.
The other option would be to set up a fund to raise £250,000 to donate to the Tory party in order to secure a private meeting with the PM. If the press is to be belived this will allow you to directly influence government policy but I suspect the campaign group is the only realistic way forward. The question is whether there is the will to do this within the industry?
We can all get angry at the stupidity of people who move next door to a circuit and are then surprised by the noise and try to get the events curtailed but they have the law on their side and the only way to change this is to change the law.
A petition was submitted to the previous government which asked for the law to be changed with regard to all noisy events however it was dismissed by the government who in their response completely missed the point. It would be easy to start another petition focused solely on motorsport and pointing out the vast economic benefits of our industry and the threat such nimbyism poses. Whether we could get the 100,000 signatures required to trigger a parlimentary debate is questionable and frankly even if it was achieved I stongly suspect such a debate would be nothing but lip service.
What is actually required is a co-ordinated campaign group that can lobby parliament directly, this in my opinion is the only way to change anything in this country. Until the industry does this then we will always be at the mercy of those pesky nimbys as well as those who do have the time and resources to lobby parliament.
The other option would be to set up a fund to raise £250,000 to donate to the Tory party in order to secure a private meeting with the PM. If the press is to be belived this will allow you to directly influence government policy but I suspect the campaign group is the only realistic way forward. The question is whether there is the will to do this within the industry?
Chris, I really do understand but maybe the future for the Britcar 24 is a more "production car" focus, leaving the GTs to run in British GT or abroad. I'm not saying that's right or desirable but the GTs are very expensive to run and the recession means that there may be less people willing to stretch themselves.
I think it was MMC Andy in another thread who argued that the production cars made up the majority of the race and yet were largely ignored by the media etc, maybe its time to reverse that. Maybe it would be easier to attract a full grid of less expensive production cars than GTs? Maybe more production cars would come if they weren't out muscled by the GTs?
As an aside, the VW Fun Cup thingies seem very popular (and the Spa 25 hours is usually very full) yet they are quiet cars and the diesel versions are particularly quiet so "quiet" can still be attractive to a racer as long as the whole package is right. Perhaps there should be a Fun Cup class?????
I think it was MMC Andy in another thread who argued that the production cars made up the majority of the race and yet were largely ignored by the media etc, maybe its time to reverse that. Maybe it would be easier to attract a full grid of less expensive production cars than GTs? Maybe more production cars would come if they weren't out muscled by the GTs?
As an aside, the VW Fun Cup thingies seem very popular (and the Spa 25 hours is usually very full) yet they are quiet cars and the diesel versions are particularly quiet so "quiet" can still be attractive to a racer as long as the whole package is right. Perhaps there should be a Fun Cup class?????
Andy....
You may well be correct and what is wrong with an endurance race with say 60 or 70 or more road based race cars battering around.
There are many advantages to this and it could even be promoted as a true race for the smaller teams....
But this does not address the central point of noise in general, the problem may well be that if we use 100db as a bench mark now if someone complains will this then be further reduced to 98 and then down to 95 and eventually below 90.
And where does this stop.
But yep unfortunately I think things are on the brink and in reality little can now be done in the UK to preserve noisy racing especially for long races.
I hope I am wrong but I have a sinking feeling.
You may well be correct and what is wrong with an endurance race with say 60 or 70 or more road based race cars battering around.
There are many advantages to this and it could even be promoted as a true race for the smaller teams....
But this does not address the central point of noise in general, the problem may well be that if we use 100db as a bench mark now if someone complains will this then be further reduced to 98 and then down to 95 and eventually below 90.
And where does this stop.
But yep unfortunately I think things are on the brink and in reality little can now be done in the UK to preserve noisy racing especially for long races.
I hope I am wrong but I have a sinking feeling.
The capping of the cars to be more production based like somewhere around GT4 level probably has some merit as they will be easier to keep quite and you could still have good cars Like E46 Production and GTR , Ginetta G50 Cup , Porsche 996 Cup etc , Seat Supercopa , aston GT4 etc etc
If the Benchmark car was a Ginetta G50 or Porsche 996 cup would it bring more entrys
If the Benchmark car was a Ginetta G50 or Porsche 996 cup would it bring more entrys
Interesting, perhaps there is an opportunity to re-address the balance in favour of motorsport but we will need the circuit owners on side together with those who do produce the very respectable income through technology and export that adds so much to this country's coffers, as ultimately, they along with us, are all at risk.
We also need to investigate how these nimby's work, is it just local pressure or are they co-ordinated in some fashion. How do they manage to get the attention they do?, for until we know how they operate, we will find it hard to break them down. I suspect that the hard core pressure is local to the tracks in question but I also feel there is more to it and that they have avenues open to them on a national basis that allows their complaints to be properly co-ordinated, I also think that we would be foolish to dismiss them as a bunch of self interested protest groups as to me there seems to be some real organisation behind them. We therefore need our own counter organisation with teeth and capability and take these people on before they get so powerful that we end up with little or no worthwhile motorsport. I personally don't agree with the premise of going quietly into the night, for as said if we continue to submit the the pressure and offer still more compromises, they will still want further concessions and will not rest until they have obtained their goal of eradicating all motorsport activities. I still believe that there is plenty of mileage in the fact that in many cases the people behind these attacks on our sport are residents who have bought or rented houses and the like in locations that are well known and established motorsport venues,as many circuits were established just after the last world war and ironically replaced military aircraft operations so not exactly the most calm and peaceful places in the first place !! Many have bought property at discounted prices because of the potential noise nuisance yet once they settle in, the first thing they do is complain, cake and eat it comes to mind.
My problem is that I have a head full of idea's on how to deal with this issue but no time available to actually do anything about it, I'm also getting somewhat long in the tooth and find that any spare time I can grab hold of is committed to family as my business commitments are still considerable. I can of course support any effort to bring about the type of counter nimby organisation we need but with limited time available to me,it will have to fall on younger shoulders to lead the way. I would gladly contribute to a fighting fund if it were properly organised with clear direction and workable aims, but alas, that is likely to be the only real help I could give. If I could go back 20 years, I'd be out there setting something up, but rolling back time is not an option
We also need to investigate how these nimby's work, is it just local pressure or are they co-ordinated in some fashion. How do they manage to get the attention they do?, for until we know how they operate, we will find it hard to break them down. I suspect that the hard core pressure is local to the tracks in question but I also feel there is more to it and that they have avenues open to them on a national basis that allows their complaints to be properly co-ordinated, I also think that we would be foolish to dismiss them as a bunch of self interested protest groups as to me there seems to be some real organisation behind them. We therefore need our own counter organisation with teeth and capability and take these people on before they get so powerful that we end up with little or no worthwhile motorsport. I personally don't agree with the premise of going quietly into the night, for as said if we continue to submit the the pressure and offer still more compromises, they will still want further concessions and will not rest until they have obtained their goal of eradicating all motorsport activities. I still believe that there is plenty of mileage in the fact that in many cases the people behind these attacks on our sport are residents who have bought or rented houses and the like in locations that are well known and established motorsport venues,as many circuits were established just after the last world war and ironically replaced military aircraft operations so not exactly the most calm and peaceful places in the first place !! Many have bought property at discounted prices because of the potential noise nuisance yet once they settle in, the first thing they do is complain, cake and eat it comes to mind.
My problem is that I have a head full of idea's on how to deal with this issue but no time available to actually do anything about it, I'm also getting somewhat long in the tooth and find that any spare time I can grab hold of is committed to family as my business commitments are still considerable. I can of course support any effort to bring about the type of counter nimby organisation we need but with limited time available to me,it will have to fall on younger shoulders to lead the way. I would gladly contribute to a fighting fund if it were properly organised with clear direction and workable aims, but alas, that is likely to be the only real help I could give. If I could go back 20 years, I'd be out there setting something up, but rolling back time is not an option
You won't win the noise argument, and it will never rise above those levels already agreed. This has to be accepted and its not worth the energy battling it. The problem with the 24hrs is that it's new, and yes, in this regard the local community do have the opportunity to have some input. There are further legal avenues they can take - re Castle Combe and F3 / Brit GT. I also suspect that the britcar race is not all important to silverstone and ruining their relationship with the locals is not worth the revenue from the race.
Noise problems are not just a UK thing, huge issues at spa and monza which challenge the future of those circuits. It's an issue that Motorsport will have to adapt to, because environmental law doesn't tend to shift the other way.. If you want to blame someone, blame the organisers of raves from the early 1990s..
Noise problems are not just a UK thing, huge issues at spa and monza which challenge the future of those circuits. It's an issue that Motorsport will have to adapt to, because environmental law doesn't tend to shift the other way.. If you want to blame someone, blame the organisers of raves from the early 1990s..
Edited by Dan Friel on Wednesday 26th September 13:15
Markgt3 said:
The capping of the cars to be more production based like somewhere around GT4 level probably has some merit as they will be easier to keep quite and you could still have good cars Like E46 Production and GTR , Ginetta G50 Cup , Porsche 996 Cup etc , Seat Supercopa , aston GT4 etc etc
If the Benchmark car was a Ginetta G50 or Porsche 996 cup would it bring more entrys
All of the cars you mention there had black flags last weekend. If the Benchmark car was a Ginetta G50 or Porsche 996 cup would it bring more entrys
Personally I dont want to race a noiseless car, its part of the experience of racing for the competitor and spectator. Those of you who witnessed the international GT race at Brands GT before the Britcar race will agree the Corvettes and Aston sounded sublime. We shouldnt let this go.
Regarding the concert idea, that wont work. donnington dont seem to mind hosting Download, yet they hate racecars...
The comparison with "Download" concert is interesting, as one who lives about a mile from the circuit. Clearly I am race fan/ competitor and i moved to Castle Donington in the full knowledge that there was a race track there (the big attraction!)and an international airport next door (what i didn't realise at the time is that its the only airport in the country with no night time flying restrictions at all, but thats my fault, although I still sleep well!).
Many in the village are very happy with the track and the airport (except the night flying), recognising the benefits they bring, however, there have been occasions when the track has breached the planning conditions imposed upon it and that's just madness on its own part. Having lived there for 15 years there is also very little local PR from the circuit (except, interestingly, in the Gillet era!) and that's also just daft.
I firmly believe in live and let live - I like racing and try not to bother others too much when I'm doing it, and don't expect to be bothered for doing it. Similarly others are entitled to their past times and I won't bother them. I am happy that Download takes place and don't mind the traffic or the music as its only one week a year; what i do get irritated about is that the event is licenced to have live music until 23:00 every night for 3 nights over the weekend (fri-sun) and yet they have "live" DJs playing music equally as loud until 4 in the morning from about the wednesday onwards, ie outside the planning conditions and no one seems to do anything about it. Locals do get irritated about that.
So, to Silverstone, if the 24 operates within the planning conditions (inc noise)then fine, but if a few cars are proven to operating outside the planning limitations then they have to be stopped, for the benefit of the rest, and for the benfit of the long term future of the event.
Now, what i can't explain is why cars that ran for 6 hours apparently within the rules then didn't - the application of the rules has to be consistent once the event starts (and I mean from the moment testing starts) and that application (inc noise testing) has to be agreed by all parties inc the Local Authority - but the message to me is clear, you have to operate within the planning permission conditions or don't race.
Many in the village are very happy with the track and the airport (except the night flying), recognising the benefits they bring, however, there have been occasions when the track has breached the planning conditions imposed upon it and that's just madness on its own part. Having lived there for 15 years there is also very little local PR from the circuit (except, interestingly, in the Gillet era!) and that's also just daft.
I firmly believe in live and let live - I like racing and try not to bother others too much when I'm doing it, and don't expect to be bothered for doing it. Similarly others are entitled to their past times and I won't bother them. I am happy that Download takes place and don't mind the traffic or the music as its only one week a year; what i do get irritated about is that the event is licenced to have live music until 23:00 every night for 3 nights over the weekend (fri-sun) and yet they have "live" DJs playing music equally as loud until 4 in the morning from about the wednesday onwards, ie outside the planning conditions and no one seems to do anything about it. Locals do get irritated about that.
So, to Silverstone, if the 24 operates within the planning conditions (inc noise)then fine, but if a few cars are proven to operating outside the planning limitations then they have to be stopped, for the benefit of the rest, and for the benfit of the long term future of the event.
Now, what i can't explain is why cars that ran for 6 hours apparently within the rules then didn't - the application of the rules has to be consistent once the event starts (and I mean from the moment testing starts) and that application (inc noise testing) has to be agreed by all parties inc the Local Authority - but the message to me is clear, you have to operate within the planning permission conditions or don't race.
andy97 said:
So, to Silverstone, if the 24 operates within the planning conditions (inc noise)then fine, but if a few cars are proven to operating outside the planning limitations then they have to be stopped, for the benefit of the rest, and for the benfit of the long term future of the event.
Thats all well and good, but the lower, stricter limit will lead to less entries, no matter how we dress it up and try to convince ourselves its the future. No-one will ever know the number, but I would like to bet that a good few cars didnt bother entering this year because of this. I was speaking to Rob Austin (BTCC) earlier, he was asking me about the 24, and he couldnt believe there was a 100db limit. His words...."how are you expected to get a proper race car under 105db?"24hr racing aint cheap, even in a Production car, so to get excluded for noise is just a chance many simply will not take. Someone, somewhere has to take a stand otherwise Motorsport in this country will become a very small sport indeed IMO
Racing Rod said:
A far bigger problem is the people who control the race track facilities, I appreciate they are business concerns in the main and they are set to make money or kudos for their owners, shareholders or privileged membership. Silverstone for one is not really that interested in Britcar or 24hr racing as firstly, we're a bit club like, don't really fit the mould, and in effect, hail from the wrong side of the tracks. If one had to pick the one track in the UK that is renowned for it's elitism, it's the home of British F1 and all that this entails, so don't be surprised if their backing has it's limits as they are not going to push or harm their good relationships for Britcar or any other "club" like series. There are ways to deal with these track owners but it would take one hell of a lot of organisation,time and effort to even get a chance of a fairer deal and i doubt if competitors alone could achieve any meaningful headway.
You make some very good points Rod. The paragraph above confused me though. I think that rather than attack Silverstone, when in reality we have no information on their position other than through race organisers, it might be more productive to find out what the issue is for them re the noise at the 24 hours. I deal with them a lot as a client and I don't recognise the management team's attitude in that paragraph.
No matter what your personal views of the BRDC are I think it is important to regognise that Silverstone is run by a management company who are always open to a conversation about anything.
In dealing with local noise issues with regards to our trackdays I find them to be very open and proactive. Issues are explained properly, information is always made available and we work together to find solutions. It's very easy to attack circuits but I would be very, very surprised to find Silverstone had done anything but try and make it work.
As for BritCar hailing from "the wrong side of the tracks" - don't think for a minute that the place is run by Nice But Dims. It just isn't.
gtdc said:
You make some very good points Rod.
The paragraph above confused me though. I think that rather than attack Silverstone, when in reality we have no information on their position other than through race organisers, it might be more productive to find out what the issue is for them re the noise at the 24 hours. I deal with them a lot as a client and I don't recognise the management team's attitude in that paragraph.
No matter what your personal views of the BRDC are I think it is important to recognize that Silverstone is run by a management company who are always open to a conversation about anything.
In dealing with local noise issues with regards to our trackdays I find them to be very open and proactive. Issues are explained properly, information is always made available and we work together to find solutions. It's very easy to attack circuits but I would be very, very surprised to find Silverstone had done anything but try and make it work.
As for BritCar hailing from "the wrong side of the tracks" - don't think for a minute that the place is run by Nice But Dims. It just isn't.
I don't have a close relationship with Silverstone but if you are right about your experience with them then perhaps direct contact provides a fairer picture, the perception however amongst many is similar to mine so maybe they need to be "seen" to be proactive. One way of so doing is to include Britcar and other well backed series in the list of "acceptable" race formats so that the ones currently on their list are not just high/profile/high cost series or historic old boys clubs.The paragraph above confused me though. I think that rather than attack Silverstone, when in reality we have no information on their position other than through race organisers, it might be more productive to find out what the issue is for them re the noise at the 24 hours. I deal with them a lot as a client and I don't recognise the management team's attitude in that paragraph.
No matter what your personal views of the BRDC are I think it is important to recognize that Silverstone is run by a management company who are always open to a conversation about anything.
In dealing with local noise issues with regards to our trackdays I find them to be very open and proactive. Issues are explained properly, information is always made available and we work together to find solutions. It's very easy to attack circuits but I would be very, very surprised to find Silverstone had done anything but try and make it work.
As for BritCar hailing from "the wrong side of the tracks" - don't think for a minute that the place is run by Nice But Dims. It just isn't.
As to the overall Silverstone stance on noise levels, I'm sure they would not wish to hinder the relationship they have with the local authority whilst they continue to seek planning permissions for any number of projects ranging from Hotels to apartments and high tech B1 units. By keeping the noise levels in line with what the local authority require as a result of the voters in the area, they maintain the status quo which will be worth millions to them, Britcar competitors who are not recognised as anything other than club racers are way down the pecking order. Maybe they are less elitist then I first thought, perhaps it just good business!!
Racing Rod said:
I don't have a close relationship with Silverstone but if you are right about your experience with them then perhaps direct contact provides a fairer picture, the perception however amongst many is similar to mine so maybe they need to be "seen" to be proactive. One way of so doing is to include Britcar and other well backed series in the list of "acceptable" race formats so that the ones currently on their list are not just high/profile/high cost series or historic old boys clubs.
I think it is important to look at what race meetings are actually promoted by Silverstone. I think that's actually a very small number. As I understand it and off the top of my head things like Silverstone Classic, Moto GP, Touring Cars are not. They rent the circuit to the promoter and supply the infrastructure, exactly the same as they would for 750MC for example. I don't think they have any input beyond the basic rules re noise, H&S, running hours etc. I'd be very surprised if they had views on "acceptable" or not. Just views on what would help to pay the bills or not. No doubt there are many BRDC members of a certain age who favour the historic stuff but they don't run the circuit. The people that do are all humans and I have yet to see any who have attained their 200th birthday. (unless they have very good surgeons)Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff