Second seat at Lotus 2013?
Discussion
When I saw Grosjean make that elementary mistake by putting a rear wheel on the white line in the wet at Brasil, I though that might have done for you matey.
I have read nothing about what's going on behind closed doors at Lotus at the moment, but I saw this from early November;
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103928
What do people think Lotus thought of his performance in the last month? Retired, 7th, Crashed (own fault).
Enough to redeem his seat, or is this a real possibility?
http://blogs.bettor.com/Heikki-Kovalainen-wants-ra...
Will they be objective about his performanace and dump him (tha's my assessment) or will Bouiller be under too much political and personal pressure to keep the French speaker in the seat. He would not be the first 'GP2' Champ to fail to make the F1 grade. IMHO his future F1 career is really on the line.
I have read nothing about what's going on behind closed doors at Lotus at the moment, but I saw this from early November;
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103928
What do people think Lotus thought of his performance in the last month? Retired, 7th, Crashed (own fault).
Enough to redeem his seat, or is this a real possibility?
http://blogs.bettor.com/Heikki-Kovalainen-wants-ra...
Will they be objective about his performanace and dump him (tha's my assessment) or will Bouiller be under too much political and personal pressure to keep the French speaker in the seat. He would not be the first 'GP2' Champ to fail to make the F1 grade. IMHO his future F1 career is really on the line.
I don't think Heikki would necessarily do a better job. He'd crash less but he'd also be less likely to win a race. Having said that I think Grosjean has taken such flack, and I don't think he knows what he needs to do to change, that I think he could be so low on confidence that he will be unable to perform.
If I was a team manager having seen Heikki's negative attitude towards finding sponsorship I would not want to reward him with a free drive.
If I was a team manager having seen Heikki's negative attitude towards finding sponsorship I would not want to reward him with a free drive.
NoScrumpyNoMore said:
When I saw Grosjean make that elementary mistake by putting a rear wheel on the white line in the wet at Brasil, I though that might have done for you matey.
I have read nothing about what's going on behind closed doors at Lotus at the moment, but I saw this from early November;
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103928
What do people think Lotus thought of his performance in the last month? Retired, 7th, Crashed (own fault).
Enough to redeem his seat, or is this a real possibility?
http://blogs.bettor.com/Heikki-Kovalainen-wants-ra...
Will they be objective about his performanace and dump him (tha's my assessment) or will Bouiller be under too much political and personal pressure to keep the French speaker in the seat. He would not be the first 'GP2' Champ to fail to make the F1 grade. IMHO his future F1 career is really on the line.
I don't think there will be any political pressure, the team are British now aren't they? Boullier is Grojesn's manager though so he is conflicted and sHouldnt really make the decision. Imagine it will be made at the board level by Genei anyway.I have read nothing about what's going on behind closed doors at Lotus at the moment, but I saw this from early November;
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103928
What do people think Lotus thought of his performance in the last month? Retired, 7th, Crashed (own fault).
Enough to redeem his seat, or is this a real possibility?
http://blogs.bettor.com/Heikki-Kovalainen-wants-ra...
Will they be objective about his performanace and dump him (tha's my assessment) or will Bouiller be under too much political and personal pressure to keep the French speaker in the seat. He would not be the first 'GP2' Champ to fail to make the F1 grade. IMHO his future F1 career is really on the line.
I could understand why they might choose to get rid but I think he has become a scape goat this year. Many of the crashes have been plain bad luck or wrong place at the wrong time much like Hamilton's last year.
I think with some coaching he could become a regular podium finisher, subject to the car being capable of course.
Despite all that I would love to see what Heikki could do in that car. His Mclaren career wasn't glittering but I think he has become a solid performer in that Caterham.
Total sponsorship is linked to Renault Engine supply so won't go if Grosjean did.
Lotus aren't afraid of sacking drivers, so if they wanted rid of him, I think he's already be gone.
As far as I can tell there are only 3 people with a vague hope of replacing him; Kobayashi, Kovaleinen and Senna (excuse the terrible spelling!).
KOV and SEN have had their chance at the team and didn't impress, KOV has been at McLaren and didn't impress. KOB is no more stable a driver and most likely slower too, so why replace a quick driver with a tendency to crash with a slower driver with a slightly lesser tendency to crash. To out score GRO a driver needs to average at least 7th in every race, which I can't any of them doing. I'd be extremely surprised to see anyone other than GRO in the 2nd lotus.
Lotus aren't afraid of sacking drivers, so if they wanted rid of him, I think he's already be gone.
As far as I can tell there are only 3 people with a vague hope of replacing him; Kobayashi, Kovaleinen and Senna (excuse the terrible spelling!).
KOV and SEN have had their chance at the team and didn't impress, KOV has been at McLaren and didn't impress. KOB is no more stable a driver and most likely slower too, so why replace a quick driver with a tendency to crash with a slower driver with a slightly lesser tendency to crash. To out score GRO a driver needs to average at least 7th in every race, which I can't any of them doing. I'd be extremely surprised to see anyone other than GRO in the 2nd lotus.
McClure said:
On the form of the second half of the season, the guy who is probably as good as any option is Massa.
Never thought I'd say that.
Massa re-signed with Ferrari.Never thought I'd say that.
I agree that Romain is quick and did get beaten up a little - most of the accidents weren't his fault. However the team still haven't announced him so there must be some sort of issue.
Yeah really.
Australia:
Pastor drove in to Grosjean on the exit of a corner, broke steering arm. Not at fault.
Malaysia:
Tagged the back of Schumacher on the exit of a corner in the rain. Possibly at fault, more likely racing incident wet, on dry tyres (IIRC). Looked like Schumacher just didn't get traction off the corner
Spain:
Perez squeezed him and the cars touched, Perez at fault, did not leave a cars width.
Monaco:
Squeezed between the Ferrari and the Merc on a narrow grid, racing incident.
England:
Paul Di Resta cut across the front of him and damaged his front wing. Not at fault.
Valencia:
DNF from alternator failure.
Spa:
His fault 100%
Abu Dhabi:
Perez leaves the track and rejoins, cutting right across Grosjean as he turns in to the corner. Perez at fault for re-joining the track in an unsafe manner.
Brazil:
Slid off in rain, his fault, no other cars involved.
Australia:
Pastor drove in to Grosjean on the exit of a corner, broke steering arm. Not at fault.
Malaysia:
Tagged the back of Schumacher on the exit of a corner in the rain. Possibly at fault, more likely racing incident wet, on dry tyres (IIRC). Looked like Schumacher just didn't get traction off the corner
Spain:
Perez squeezed him and the cars touched, Perez at fault, did not leave a cars width.
Monaco:
Squeezed between the Ferrari and the Merc on a narrow grid, racing incident.
England:
Paul Di Resta cut across the front of him and damaged his front wing. Not at fault.
Valencia:
DNF from alternator failure.
Spa:
His fault 100%
Abu Dhabi:
Perez leaves the track and rejoins, cutting right across Grosjean as he turns in to the corner. Perez at fault for re-joining the track in an unsafe manner.
Brazil:
Slid off in rain, his fault, no other cars involved.
Grosjean is the top scoring rookie in the championship this year, it would seem harsh given his natural speed to drop him for 2013. But this morning his place on the Lotus entry list says TBA. Having said that it would mean with HRT gone 8 of this years drivers are out of luck,or still not confirmed, a record cull I`m sure. Don`t be an F1 driver if you want job security. Almost as if CVC were running the personnel department.
Crafty_ said:
Yeah really.
Australia:
Pastor drove in to Grosjean on the exit of a corner, broke steering arm. Not at fault.
Malaysia:
Tagged the back of Schumacher on the exit of a corner in the rain. Possibly at fault, more likely racing incident wet, on dry tyres (IIRC). Looked like Schumacher just didn't get traction off the corner
Spain:
Perez squeezed him and the cars touched, Perez at fault, did not leave a cars width.
Monaco:
Squeezed between the Ferrari and the Merc on a narrow grid, racing incident.
England:
Paul Di Resta cut across the front of him and damaged his front wing. Not at fault.
Valencia:
DNF from alternator failure.
Spa:
His fault 100%
Abu Dhabi:
Perez leaves the track and rejoins, cutting right across Grosjean as he turns in to the corner. Perez at fault for re-joining the track in an unsafe manner.
Brazil:
Slid off in rain, his fault, no other cars involved.
So, even defending him, you admit that half of the 8 crashes were his fault, the rest debatable.Australia:
Pastor drove in to Grosjean on the exit of a corner, broke steering arm. Not at fault.
Malaysia:
Tagged the back of Schumacher on the exit of a corner in the rain. Possibly at fault, more likely racing incident wet, on dry tyres (IIRC). Looked like Schumacher just didn't get traction off the corner
Spain:
Perez squeezed him and the cars touched, Perez at fault, did not leave a cars width.
Monaco:
Squeezed between the Ferrari and the Merc on a narrow grid, racing incident.
England:
Paul Di Resta cut across the front of him and damaged his front wing. Not at fault.
Valencia:
DNF from alternator failure.
Spa:
His fault 100%
Abu Dhabi:
Perez leaves the track and rejoins, cutting right across Grosjean as he turns in to the corner. Perez at fault for re-joining the track in an unsafe manner.
Brazil:
Slid off in rain, his fault, no other cars involved.
IMO, which is fairly common, he's just a little out of his depth with other cars around and has little spare capacity for good judgement. Maybe that will improve but possibly at the cost of speed.
Or perhaps he's just unlucky.
Crafty_ said:
Yeah really.
Australia:
Pastor drove in to Grosjean on the exit of a corner, broke steering arm. Not at fault.
Malaysia:
Tagged the back of Schumacher on the exit of a corner in the rain. Possibly at fault, more likely racing incident wet, on dry tyres (IIRC). Looked like Schumacher just didn't get traction off the corner
Spain:
Perez squeezed him and the cars touched, Perez at fault, did not leave a cars width.
Monaco:
Squeezed between the Ferrari and the Merc on a narrow grid, racing incident.
England:
Paul Di Resta cut across the front of him and damaged his front wing. Not at fault.
Valencia:
DNF from alternator failure.
Spa:
His fault 100%
Abu Dhabi:
Perez leaves the track and rejoins, cutting right across Grosjean as he turns in to the corner. Perez at fault for re-joining the track in an unsafe manner.
Brazil:
Slid off in rain, his fault, no other cars involved.
I am indifferent as to whether he gets the drive, he has shown real pace, and at times some great racing ability, he has also made a lot of mistakes IMO but in his defence plenty of great drivers have in their early days (although I admit plenty haven't), he is simply more in the spotlight due to starting in such a competitive drive (I don't believe his previous half a season was enough to iron out mistakes).Australia:
Pastor drove in to Grosjean on the exit of a corner, broke steering arm. Not at fault.
Malaysia:
Tagged the back of Schumacher on the exit of a corner in the rain. Possibly at fault, more likely racing incident wet, on dry tyres (IIRC). Looked like Schumacher just didn't get traction off the corner
Spain:
Perez squeezed him and the cars touched, Perez at fault, did not leave a cars width.
Monaco:
Squeezed between the Ferrari and the Merc on a narrow grid, racing incident.
England:
Paul Di Resta cut across the front of him and damaged his front wing. Not at fault.
Valencia:
DNF from alternator failure.
Spa:
His fault 100%
Abu Dhabi:
Perez leaves the track and rejoins, cutting right across Grosjean as he turns in to the corner. Perez at fault for re-joining the track in an unsafe manner.
Brazil:
Slid off in rain, his fault, no other cars involved.
Anyway, to be a pedant, you missed out Japan where he drove into the Back of Webber.
Grosjean isn't on the official FIA F1 entry list yet - but then again nor are a lot drivers
No. Driver Full team name Chassis/Engine
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing Red Bull-Renault
2 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing Red Bull-Renault
3 Fernando Alonso Scuderia Ferrari Ferrari
4 Felipe Massa Scuderia Ferrari Ferrari
5 Jenson Button Vodafone McLaren Mercedes McLaren-Mercedes
6 Sergio Perez Vodafone McLaren Mercedes McLaren-Mercedes
7 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus F1 Team Lotus-Renault
8 tba Lotus F1 Team Lotus-Renault
9 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team Mercedes
10 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team Mercedes
11 tba Sauber F1 Team Sauber-Ferrari
12 tba Sauber F1 Team Sauber-Ferrari
14 tba Sahara Force India F1 Team Force India-Mercedes
15 tba Sahara Force India F1 Team Force India-Mercedes
16 Pastor Maldonado Williams F1 Team Williams-Renault
17 Valtteri Bottas Williams F1 Team Williams-Renault
18 tba Scuderia Toro Rosso Toro Rosso-Ferrari
19 tba Scuderia Toro Rosso Toro Rosso-Ferrari
20 tba Caterham F1 Team Caterham-Renault
21 tba Caterham F1 Team Caterham-Renault
22 tba Marussia F1 Team Marussia-Cosworth
23 tba Marussia F1 Team Marussia-Cosworth
No. Driver Full team name Chassis/Engine
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing Red Bull-Renault
2 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing Red Bull-Renault
3 Fernando Alonso Scuderia Ferrari Ferrari
4 Felipe Massa Scuderia Ferrari Ferrari
5 Jenson Button Vodafone McLaren Mercedes McLaren-Mercedes
6 Sergio Perez Vodafone McLaren Mercedes McLaren-Mercedes
7 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus F1 Team Lotus-Renault
8 tba Lotus F1 Team Lotus-Renault
9 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team Mercedes
10 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team Mercedes
11 tba Sauber F1 Team Sauber-Ferrari
12 tba Sauber F1 Team Sauber-Ferrari
14 tba Sahara Force India F1 Team Force India-Mercedes
15 tba Sahara Force India F1 Team Force India-Mercedes
16 Pastor Maldonado Williams F1 Team Williams-Renault
17 Valtteri Bottas Williams F1 Team Williams-Renault
18 tba Scuderia Toro Rosso Toro Rosso-Ferrari
19 tba Scuderia Toro Rosso Toro Rosso-Ferrari
20 tba Caterham F1 Team Caterham-Renault
21 tba Caterham F1 Team Caterham-Renault
22 tba Marussia F1 Team Marussia-Cosworth
23 tba Marussia F1 Team Marussia-Cosworth
REALIST123 said:
So, even defending him, you admit that half of the 8 crashes were his fault, the rest debatable.
IMO, which is fairly common, he's just a little out of his depth with other cars around and has little spare capacity for good judgement. Maybe that will improve but possibly at the cost of speed.
Or perhaps he's just unlucky.
half ? cannot you not read?IMO, which is fairly common, he's just a little out of his depth with other cars around and has little spare capacity for good judgement. Maybe that will improve but possibly at the cost of speed.
Or perhaps he's just unlucky.
As someone pointed out I did forget Japan.
So Japan & Spa were his fault 100% down to him.
The problem Lotus have is there isn't anyone any better available. Romain is fast and can be very consistent with times too.
Heikki - Nice bloke, but he was pretty even with Petrov this year (and thats being kind), who Lotus dumped.
Kamui - Yeah I like his last gasp overtakes but he's been inconsistent and flipping slow at times.
Bruno - Eclipsed by Maldonado (in between crashes)
Jaime - I'd really like to see back in F1, difficult to know what speed he's got. Might be worth a punt.
Sutil - Erm, possibly not
Or you take a rookie from GP2.
El Guapo said:
Crafty_ said:
Spa:
His fault 100%
I wouldn't say that, maybe 75%. Lewis could have backed off to avoid a collision, but the argument has been done to death.His fault 100%
I'd keep Grosjean. He's fast, that's what really matters.
He does have a lot of potential and perhaps a season out of the spot light would help - could he be leased to a team like Marussia? Give him a season to get more race distances under his belt, perhaps from lower down the grid and even show the odd bit of brilliance pulling it up higher in qualifying? Just a thought.
Too to good to be lost from F1 - but not justifying his current seat.
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