Wet Sump RV8 - vs - AJP Tuscan Chassis?
Discussion
Hi there,
I now have a TVR 500 engine - box - ecu - engine loom - afm - ancillaries - mounts and mounts to position the engine within the chassis, these can be adapted and welded into position once I have done what I want to to the engine and box...all good.
As the engine is out of a road going chimaera it has a standard "wet" sump...I have an challenge chasis set-up for an AJP..
Question is can I get the RV8 in there with the existing sump set-up...?
Is the sump going to be too low...I will be running 18ins O.Z. split rims...so there will be a little more clearance than the original race cars...want to avoid a sump guard if poss...
In the fullness of time I might re-visit this area and go dry sump...BUT I have to prioritize funds to keep the exercise moving and get
the car on the road...
Thanks in advance
I now have a TVR 500 engine - box - ecu - engine loom - afm - ancillaries - mounts and mounts to position the engine within the chassis, these can be adapted and welded into position once I have done what I want to to the engine and box...all good.
As the engine is out of a road going chimaera it has a standard "wet" sump...I have an challenge chasis set-up for an AJP..
Question is can I get the RV8 in there with the existing sump set-up...?
Is the sump going to be too low...I will be running 18ins O.Z. split rims...so there will be a little more clearance than the original race cars...want to avoid a sump guard if poss...
In the fullness of time I might re-visit this area and go dry sump...BUT I have to prioritize funds to keep the exercise moving and get
the car on the road...
Thanks in advance
The challenge chassis has bracing under the engine bay, so unless you intend chopping chassis tubes out then the sump can't sit below the chassis.
Its not just the sump you need to worry about - you need to also make sure that the gearbox etc line up. The only way to do it is to drop the engine in the hole and see how it fits. If it looks roughly ok take it out then drop it back in with the bellhousing and gear box on the back. Whilst the engine is still on the crane get the gearbox mounts done up and that will align the rear and give you a better idea what you need to do at the front.
Its not just the sump you need to worry about - you need to also make sure that the gearbox etc line up. The only way to do it is to drop the engine in the hole and see how it fits. If it looks roughly ok take it out then drop it back in with the bellhousing and gear box on the back. Whilst the engine is still on the crane get the gearbox mounts done up and that will align the rear and give you a better idea what you need to do at the front.
I dont know of anyone running a rover with a wet sump, but a few running wet sump ajp including the odd racer.
to fit the wet sump you will need to chop a bar or 2 out of the chassis.
the early rover sumps are shorter than the later range rover ones that TVR use, so that might sit behind the cross bracing. if i get a chance I'll see if i can get a pic from under mine so you can see where the bracing is / needs to come out.
When I fitted my engine we went as far back as possible, which means the crank line and thus the gear box centers higher than it was with the ajp. it has to be higher if right back to get the manifolds over the chassis. There isnt much room at the front ( its a b
d to get in) so to be honest not sure i could have put it much further forward and lower.
Mine is dry sump so I dont have an issue with the chassis or sump clearance.
dry sumping adds a lot of expense and different packaging issues, i.e where the pump goes and where the tank goes so for a road car your better off with the wet sump
to fit the wet sump you will need to chop a bar or 2 out of the chassis.
the early rover sumps are shorter than the later range rover ones that TVR use, so that might sit behind the cross bracing. if i get a chance I'll see if i can get a pic from under mine so you can see where the bracing is / needs to come out.
When I fitted my engine we went as far back as possible, which means the crank line and thus the gear box centers higher than it was with the ajp. it has to be higher if right back to get the manifolds over the chassis. There isnt much room at the front ( its a b
d to get in) so to be honest not sure i could have put it much further forward and lower.Mine is dry sump so I dont have an issue with the chassis or sump clearance.
dry sumping adds a lot of expense and different packaging issues, i.e where the pump goes and where the tank goes so for a road car your better off with the wet sump
teamHOLDENracing said:
The challenge chassis has bracing under the engine bay, so unless you intend chopping chassis tubes out then the sump can't sit below the chassis.
Its not just the sump you need to worry about - you need to also make sure that the gearbox etc line up. The only way to do it is to drop the engine in the hole and see how it fits. If it looks roughly ok take it out then drop it back in with the bellhousing and gear box on the back. Whilst the engine is still on the crane get the gearbox mounts done up and that will align the rear and give you a better idea what you need to do at the front.
Thanks Andy,Its not just the sump you need to worry about - you need to also make sure that the gearbox etc line up. The only way to do it is to drop the engine in the hole and see how it fits. If it looks roughly ok take it out then drop it back in with the bellhousing and gear box on the back. Whilst the engine is still on the crane get the gearbox mounts done up and that will align the rear and give you a better idea what you need to do at the front.
This is why I haven't bothered blasting the chassis or painting it, so do we anticipate issues if I decide to take the lower cross members out?
1. Strength...these chasis are stronger than road cars....might be still ok?
2. Clearance will the sump "hang out" of the bottom?
People have talked about creating a new wider sump, but again costs will be the killer here too..might as well wait until a dry sump comes along at the right money.....but migh run out of time waiting, I want to drive it before I am too old to get in!
Thoughts?
I dont have diff mounts yet but have a challenge car diff..and will have a prop shaft soon...so I guess...fit the mounts...then the diff...then the prop...create some clearance for the sump...drop the engine and box in as a unit...establish where the front of the engine come in relation to the engine mounts then mark it up...takee the engine back out...sort the welding...then try fitting engine and box!
Right off to TVRPower for valley gaskets...end seals and rocker cover gaskets...
i'd have though making up a wide narrow sump would be expensive and too easy to get the design wrong.
dont forget you need to make a pick up pipe to suit it as well..
the wet sump isnt just about capacity its designed to minimise the risk of oil starvation in normal use so you'd want to baffle it somehow as well. if its shallow probably easy to get the pickup out of the oil..
I think you have 2 options
1) fit full dry sump system
2) cut chassis and fit standard wet sump.
as to getting it all in, yes I'd trial fit engine and box as one unit, line it all up and then make some mounts.
if you've already got the prop then yes you probably are going to want the diff in place to make sure the prop will fit. if the engine and box will go in the right place for that prop.
It was easier for us as I knew I was going to have to mod my prop as the box was goin in further back. So I just put the engine and box where i wanted it / could get it and measure the prop up and had it made.
dont forget you need to make a pick up pipe to suit it as well..
the wet sump isnt just about capacity its designed to minimise the risk of oil starvation in normal use so you'd want to baffle it somehow as well. if its shallow probably easy to get the pickup out of the oil..
I think you have 2 options
1) fit full dry sump system
2) cut chassis and fit standard wet sump.
as to getting it all in, yes I'd trial fit engine and box as one unit, line it all up and then make some mounts.
if you've already got the prop then yes you probably are going to want the diff in place to make sure the prop will fit. if the engine and box will go in the right place for that prop.
It was easier for us as I knew I was going to have to mod my prop as the box was goin in further back. So I just put the engine and box where i wanted it / could get it and measure the prop up and had it made.
Graham said:
i'd have though making up a wide narrow sump would be expensive and too easy to get the design wrong.
dont forget you need to make a pick up pipe to suit it as well..
the wet sump isnt just about capacity its designed to minimise the risk of oil starvation in normal use so you'd want to baffle it somehow as well. if its shallow probably easy to get the pickup out of the oil..
I think you have 2 options
1) fit full dry sump system
2) cut chassis and fit standard wet sump.
as to getting it all in, yes I'd trial fit engine and box as one unit, line it all up and then make some mounts.
if you've already got the prop then yes you probably are going to want the diff in place to make sure the prop will fit. if the engine and box will go in the right place for that prop.
It was easier for us as I knew I was going to have to mod my prop as the box was goin in further back. So I just put the engine and box where i wanted it / could get it and measure the prop up and had it made.
Right looks like I am going for option 2 then....I intend to have the prop off Andy Race's car,,,it's for an RV8 and is sound...assumption here but the diff will be in a fixed position...(when I have mounts) ...if fix the diff in situ and use a prop off a Tuscan challenge RV8 then that should position the box and engine at the correct point, then I can take measurements take it out and get a friendly mate to weld the sections that RT have made for me...weld some seats belt mounts and harness points in and seat mounts for the passenger side and send it all off for blasting...dont forget you need to make a pick up pipe to suit it as well..
the wet sump isnt just about capacity its designed to minimise the risk of oil starvation in normal use so you'd want to baffle it somehow as well. if its shallow probably easy to get the pickup out of the oil..
I think you have 2 options
1) fit full dry sump system
2) cut chassis and fit standard wet sump.
as to getting it all in, yes I'd trial fit engine and box as one unit, line it all up and then make some mounts.
if you've already got the prop then yes you probably are going to want the diff in place to make sure the prop will fit. if the engine and box will go in the right place for that prop.
It was easier for us as I knew I was going to have to mod my prop as the box was goin in further back. So I just put the engine and box where i wanted it / could get it and measure the prop up and had it made.
My concern then would be (what we were talking about Friday) will the sump "ground" out as it is too low....I am hoping that the engines were dry- sumped for assurance and performance and not clearance..just been speaking to Dom and Jason when I over at Power just and as you say you get into a whole lot of hurt when you want to start heading down the dry-sump route...
So will it have enough clearance?
wadsapple said:
How big are the speed hums / sleeping plod in your area? Certainly on track you wouldn,t want too much hanging below chassis as it would be begging to get wiped off on a curb probably especially somethink to do with oil 
Hey Perry,See totally where you are coming from...always creep over the loverly speed humps we have here...but just thinking this is the time to ask the question (s) ...want to try and head off re-think issues and the frustration that comes with them..
Plus it would be rude not to have a car that is only fit for road, I will use it on the track...I will explore the ARDs side of things....o.k. I can't race but I want to learn and who knows what the future holds...
Guillotine said:
The plenum on your engine will be lower than the std carb set up, so you could have the engine/gearbox higher...giving room for the sump.
I'm sure a could of wet RV8s have been done. Think they went to Oz though.
A
Thanks Andy,I'm sure a could of wet RV8s have been done. Think they went to Oz though.
A
Looking at the chassis...yes ideally it would be best to keep the lower cross section in...guess the danger is if you raise the angle of the engine you might end up with oil starvation to the front?
Or are you suggesting remove the chassis rails and raise it a little?
RT have made the mount to chassis insert sections oversized to facilitate positioning of the engine easier which helps no end...
This car ran a Griff/Chim 500 road spec engine c/w the original wet sump arrangement..
It was rebuilt from an AJP chassied Tuscan as a road car by PHer Phil Bunn, and the sump has been modified to fit.
Phil sold it to another PHer Brian Jeffries, who raced it once or twice.
Ive got the engine from the above car in my red Tuscan, and have had no problems with sump fouling on circuit.
My Chim 500 road car OTOH ,has sustained a few scuffs, although it does sit lower than a Challenge car
.
It was rebuilt from an AJP chassied Tuscan as a road car by PHer Phil Bunn, and the sump has been modified to fit.
Phil sold it to another PHer Brian Jeffries, who raced it once or twice.
Ive got the engine from the above car in my red Tuscan, and have had no problems with sump fouling on circuit.
My Chim 500 road car OTOH ,has sustained a few scuffs, although it does sit lower than a Challenge car
.RetroWheels said:
This car ran a Griff/Chim 500 road spec engine c/w the original wet sump arrangement..
It was rebuilt from an AJP chassied Tuscan as a road car by PHer Phil Bunn, and the sump has been modified to fit.
Phil sold it to another PHer Brian Jeffries, who raced it once or twice.
Ive got the engine from the above car in my red Tuscan, and have had no problems with sump fouling on circuit.
My Chim 500 road car OTOH ,has sustained a few scuffs, although it does sit lower than a Challenge car.
Cheers Darren...was trying to find your number yesterday because Graham said that you knew of a car that had a wet sump..when you say "modified to fit" do you mean that it was cut and re-fabricated in anyway, want to try and avoid this if possible..?It was rebuilt from an AJP chassied Tuscan as a road car by PHer Phil Bunn, and the sump has been modified to fit.
Phil sold it to another PHer Brian Jeffries, who raced it once or twice.
Ive got the engine from the above car in my red Tuscan, and have had no problems with sump fouling on circuit.
My Chim 500 road car OTOH ,has sustained a few scuffs, although it does sit lower than a Challenge car
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