Has Bernie pushed it too far?

[andyps]

I've just read the post on Autosport saying that the future of the German GP is in doubt because Bernie has failed to agree terms with the Nurburgring - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105300

As the report points out, this potentially means only on race between June 30th and August 25th. It seems totally wrong that the sport will have only one race in a 2 month period in the middle of the year and looks like a sign that Bernie has pushed things too far in terms of demands for money from promoters/circuits. I know there are potential circuits such as Russia for the future but pricing out the traditional circuits to the extent they aren't even prepared to do a one year deal strikes me as a good way to kill the sport we have supported for so long.

What might Bernie's long term gain plan be?

[belleair302]

There are some serious issues regarding the Nurburgring and also serious issues about how expensive it has become to 'host' and F1 race. Remember bernie is the puppet of CVC and they owe billions to investors in regard to many different loss making deals beyond F1. CVC will force F1 teams to race anywhere so long as a government pays, regardless whether the fans turn up.

I dont see the Germans having a 2013 race but there will be another GP in Europe. France maybe or Portugal....WTF????

[Derek Smith]

Germany and Ecclestone are not the best of friends at the moment. He's under threat of legal action and one wold assume that there is much in the way of back-door negotiations going on at the moment. The only question is how much influence does Ecclestone have.

Perhaps the blocking of the German GP is part of this.

There is never, ever any coincidence in timing.

F1 is dead though. At least after the end of next season. The change to the formula is massive. Same names and same drivers but everything else is different.

CVC are after a high sale price and this confuses me a bit. Surely a series without a full calendar does not make for value. Nor does an unresolved argument. And we still haven't got a concord agreement.

Odd,

[andyps]

Derek Smith said:

CVC are after a high sale price and this confuses me a bit. Surely a series without a full calendar does not make for value. Nor does an unresolved argument. And we still haven't got a concord agreement.

Odd,

That is the part I can't work out with this announcement about the German GP, without something else going on a hole in the calendar as big as this leaves can't look good to potential investors/buyers.

[Derek Smith]

andyps said:

Derek Smith said:

CVC are after a high sale price and this confuses me a bit. Surely a series without a full calendar does not make for value. Nor does an unresolved argument. And we still haven't got a concord agreement.

Odd,

That is the part I can't work out with this announcement about the German GP, without something else going on a hole in the calendar as big as this leaves can't look good to potential investors/buyers.

Chatting this morning with an online friend and the suggestion that came up was that the Germans might be pushing for something. But that's where the great idea ended.

[rev-erend]

Its a bernie tactic to avoid going to Germany.

[Derek Smith]

rev-erend said:

Its a bernie tactic to avoid going to Germany.

Wash your brain out with soap to cleanse it of such evil thoughts.

[andyps]

PW said:

A bit extreme, isn't it?

Upset the teams, the fans, the broadcasters who've paid to show the race etc by nixing the race entirely rather than, oh I don't know, just not going to the race? He's skipped them before and the world didn't implode...

Of course it's some evil Bernie plan, not the fact that the Nurburgring is absolutely screwed financially and the local government, who have already poured millions of euros in, are under scrutiny from the EU for the way they have been financing it.

Your final paragraph does contain many valid points, but also highlights the issue which circuit owners dealing with Bernie face. You would think that holding an F1 race should be a great opportunity for a circuit to make some money but the reality is that the fees and conditions imposed by Bernie/CVC make it very difficult to profit as the owner. My question, has Bernie pushed it too far, is not just about Germany, but an overall situation which leaves such a large hole in the F1 calendar in the middle of the year through an uneven distribution of revenue. Germany may just be the tipping point but the situation is much larger than one country.

I am sure Bernie has a plan, I just can't figure it at the moment.

[coppice]

Ecclestone has done his best single handedly to destroy the sport for its followers ever since Mosley sold the sport to him. Nothing BCE does surprises me- I am sure there are still greater depths he can plumb...

[ArnageWRC]

coppice said:

Ecclestone has done his best single handedly to destroy the sport for its followers ever since Mosley sold the sport to him. Nothing BCE does surprises me- I am sure there are still greater depths he can plumb...

Sold?? Wasn't it almost a giveaway? And the FiA lost the power over calendars, etc which is why they're cautious over the other FiA World Championships.

Anyway, too many countries are bending over backwards to finance hosting a GP, that the figures don't add up. Time for all to get real, and simply not pay. There are other series out there....F1 isn't the be all and end all. Eventually, the teams will surely demand action if there are only 3-4 races in Europe.

I'm more bothered about the Nurburgring continuing to remain solvent, and host the best race of the year; the N24.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Bugger, this was supposed to be my stag do!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Had the news sent over last night, it's on!

Nurburgring weekend of the 7th of July.

[rev-erend]

My guess he will be busy that weekend else where.

[Fire99]

Derek Smith said:

F1 is dead though. At least after the end of next season. The change to the formula is massive. Same names and same drivers but everything else is different.

This sadly is the defining point for me. F1 will be a formula but it won't be Formula 1 in its finest sense.

[Eric Mc]

That's exactly what people said in 1961 with the introduction of the 1.5 litre Formula 1.

[London424]

Eric Mc said:

That's exactly what people said in 1961 with the introduction of the 1.5 litre Formula 1.

And been saying it every few years when changes have been made. Engines, tyres, tracks, safety etc.

[Derek Smith]

Eric Mc said:

That's exactly what people said in 1961 with the introduction of the 1.5 litre Formula 1.

F1 did indeed end in '61. It had to revert to F2 because of lack of interest. F2 badged as F1 did indeed suffer and this is why there was the push to get F1 back, one that was successful. Sportscar racing was then seen by many as the primary formula. Modern F1 started in 1966. I walked into the paddock on the Saturday of the British GP at Brands in '66. That was the year that modern F1 started.

[rev-erend]

Fire99 said:

Derek Smith said:

F1 is dead though. At least after the end of next season. The change to the formula is massive. Same names and same drivers but everything else is different.

This sadly is the defining point for me. F1 will be a formula but it won't be Formula 1 in its finest sense.

What's changing ?

[Y8RSP]

rev-erend said:

Fire99 said:

Derek Smith said:

F1 is dead though. At least after the end of next season. The change to the formula is massive. Same names and same drivers but everything else is different.

This sadly is the defining point for me. F1 will be a formula but it won't be Formula 1 in its finest sense.

What's changing ?

Funny how everyone refers to the sport as a 'Formula 1 race' now rather than a 'Grand Prix'... for me the defining moment of true Formula 1 Grand Prix were the likes of messrs. Senna, Hunt, Fittipaldi, et al. hooning around the streets of Monte Carlo, changing gear with a proper 'H-gate' shift driving, battling and truly racing... onboard cameras showing just what it takes to make it to the top of the motor racing tree - simply inspiring.

Unfortunately those days are long behind us all. The modern driver is; in essence, a computer programmer as much as a driver - Don't get me wrong - I respect the modern driver for the skills required to manage all of the onboard systems whilst driving - but IMHO modern F1 is a far cry from the 'proper' racing days of old...

[Eric Mc]

Derek Smith said:

Eric Mc said:

That's exactly what people said in 1961 with the introduction of the 1.5 litre Formula 1.

F1 did indeed end in '61. It had to revert to F2 because of lack of interest. F2 badged as F1 did indeed suffer and this is why there was the push to get F1 back, one that was successful. Sportscar racing was then seen by many as the primary formula. Modern F1 started in 1966. I walked into the paddock on the Saturday of the British GP at Brands in '66. That was the year that modern F1 started.

Absolutely true. Even though the Brits did really well in the 1.5 litre era - they started off in an attempt to boycott it - by continuing the old 2.5 litre formula as the Intercontinental Formula.

I don't think there was lack of interest in F1 at the end of 1960. The reasons for the switch to 1.5 were cost and safety. The switch to genuine F2 in 1952 was DEFINITELY brought about by lack of entrants for 1952 under the previous 4.5 litre regulations.