Pirelli Dilemma
Discussion
Normally like Sniffpetrol's stuff but not very amused by this.
Every car other than Massa's seemed to manage with the tyres they had. This suggests a set up issue caused the over stressing of the tyres, not a flaw in the tyres.
Pirelli have made the tyres that they have been asked to make with the characteristics that have been requested. To take the piss out of them for doing what they have been asked to do is not only a low blow but also a s
tty little sucker punch to the back of someone's head whilst they are walking away from you.
Poor show.
Every car other than Massa's seemed to manage with the tyres they had. This suggests a set up issue caused the over stressing of the tyres, not a flaw in the tyres.
Pirelli have made the tyres that they have been asked to make with the characteristics that have been requested. To take the piss out of them for doing what they have been asked to do is not only a low blow but also a s
tty little sucker punch to the back of someone's head whilst they are walking away from you.Poor show.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the F1 tyre debate, Pirelli are paying a lot of money for the privilege of supplying tyres that are widely criticised for wearing out very quickly. They're not getting the positive publicity that they would expect from their F1 sponsorship, as demonstrated by the Sniffpetrol joke.
Rude-boy said:
Normally like Sniffpetrol's stuff but not very amused by this.
Every car other than Massa's seemed to manage with the tyres they had. This suggests a set up issue caused the over stressing of the tyres, not a flaw in the tyres.
Pirelli have made the tyres that they have been asked to make with the characteristics that have been requested. To take the piss out of them for doing what they have been asked to do is not only a low blow but also a stty little sucker punch to the back of someone's head whilst they are walking away from you.
Poor show.
don't be ridiculous...Every car other than Massa's seemed to manage with the tyres they had. This suggests a set up issue caused the over stressing of the tyres, not a flaw in the tyres.
Pirelli have made the tyres that they have been asked to make with the characteristics that have been requested. To take the piss out of them for doing what they have been asked to do is not only a low blow but also a s
tty little sucker punch to the back of someone's head whilst they are walking away from you.Poor show.
for starters, it was not only Massa that had tyres fail, or did you forget Lewis's failure?
all that aside, they are completely crap tyres, and the very fact Pirelli seem quite happy to made s
t tyres kind of makes the point.I've often wondered at the benefits of F1 to Pirelli.
The more knowledgeable of the public will understand what they have been asked to do but will still surely buy 'their' favourite brand of tyre.
The kind of person that happens to turn the TV on to watch F1 will hear that - '..... lost grip - fallen of the cliff - wear rate' type comments and associate it with the Pirelli brand and are likely to buy something else next time they need tyres.
Pirelli must see some advantage to it I suppose or they wouldn't get involved.
BB
The more knowledgeable of the public will understand what they have been asked to do but will still surely buy 'their' favourite brand of tyre.
The kind of person that happens to turn the TV on to watch F1 will hear that - '..... lost grip - fallen of the cliff - wear rate' type comments and associate it with the Pirelli brand and are likely to buy something else next time they need tyres.
Pirelli must see some advantage to it I suppose or they wouldn't get involved.
BB
Scuffers said:
don't be ridiculous...
for starters, it was not only Massa that had tyres fail, or did you forget Lewis's failure?
all that aside, they are completely crap tyres, and the very fact Pirelli seem quite happy to made st tyres kind of makes the point.
Sorry, I had forgotten Lewis puncture, that still suggests though that 18 other drivers coped well.for starters, it was not only Massa that had tyres fail, or did you forget Lewis's failure?
all that aside, they are completely crap tyres, and the very fact Pirelli seem quite happy to made s
t tyres kind of makes the point.What is rediculous is that someone who should know far better is happy to hop on the "Pirelli are s
t" band waggon when they know full well that Pirelli have produced a product to the specification asked of it. Rude-boy said:
What is ridiculous is that someone who should know far better is happy to hop on the "Pirelli are st" band waggon when they know full well that Pirelli have produced a product to the specification asked of it.
Bang-on, Pirelli are heroes imo - we endured years of Bridgeston/Michelin providing boring racing thanks to super-durable tyres, now the action hots up and there's a backlash.t" band waggon when they know full well that Pirelli have produced a product to the specification asked of it. Rude-boy said:
Scuffers said:
don't be ridiculous...
for starters, it was not only Massa that had tyres fail, or did you forget Lewis's failure?
all that aside, they are completely crap tyres, and the very fact Pirelli seem quite happy to made st tyres kind of makes the point.
Sorry, I had forgotten Lewis puncture, that still suggests though that 18 other drivers coped well.for starters, it was not only Massa that had tyres fail, or did you forget Lewis's failure?
all that aside, they are completely crap tyres, and the very fact Pirelli seem quite happy to made s
t tyres kind of makes the point.What is rediculous is that someone who should know far better is happy to hop on the "Pirelli are s
t" band waggon when they know full well that Pirelli have produced a product to the specification asked of it. The old adage 'Win on Sunday, sell on Monday' isn't going to work when the talk on Sunday is all about fragile Pirelli tyres falling apart in the race, or tyres having to be nursed to the finishing line.
RYH64E said:
The point is, the perception is that Pirelli tyres in F1 are wearing/degrading quickly, if the public begins to associate Pirelli tyres with high wear rates and rapid degradation the marketing people at Pirelli aren't going to be pleased.
The old adage 'Win on Sunday, sell on Monday' isn't going to work when the talk on Sunday is all about fragile Pirelli tyres falling apart in the race, or tyres having to be nursed to the finishing line.
I do agree that the very fact that even those who know why are suggesting that Pirelli make bad tyres is a strong indication that it is not perhaps the gig that Pirelli should be turning up at. I just find it vexing that people who do know are still sticking the boot in which is a low blow. When discussing F1 with some of my friends who are more casual viewers most understand the tyre situation and agree with me that Pirelli are actually doing a blinding job. The old adage 'Win on Sunday, sell on Monday' isn't going to work when the talk on Sunday is all about fragile Pirelli tyres falling apart in the race, or tyres having to be nursed to the finishing line.
There are still those who don't understand though. These also tend to be the same group of people who believe that white goods should last 15+ years and can't believe it when you explain built in obsolescence to them and why such a thing exists. In one case to make a better show, in another to make better profits.
If asked to do so Pirelli could make tyres that lasted the entire weekend – then we would lose a considerable number of variables which would lead to us going back to ‘the good old days’ where you might as well pack up and go home at 2:30pm on Saturday as the result will be the same as the grid baring the odd retirement.
BigBob said:
I've often wondered at the benefits of F1 to Pirelli.
The more knowledgeable of the public will understand what they have been asked to do but will still surely buy 'their' favourite brand of tyre.
The kind of person that happens to turn the TV on to watch F1 will hear that - '..... lost grip - fallen of the cliff - wear rate' type comments and associate it with the Pirelli brand and are likely to buy something else next time they need tyres.
Pirelli must see some advantage to it I suppose or they wouldn't get involved.
BB
Pirelli fall into the market where motorists make an informed choice as to what tyres to specify - compared to others that simply specify the cheapest. Those that fall into the former market will, on the whole, recognise that the performance of F1 tyres bears no relation to what they put on their road cars but will (in theory) by of a mind that anything associated with F1 is likely to offer advantages (transfer of technical knowledge, R&D) plus of course there's the cachet element too. Not saying these are prominent buying decisions but they are factors.The more knowledgeable of the public will understand what they have been asked to do but will still surely buy 'their' favourite brand of tyre.
The kind of person that happens to turn the TV on to watch F1 will hear that - '..... lost grip - fallen of the cliff - wear rate' type comments and associate it with the Pirelli brand and are likely to buy something else next time they need tyres.
Pirelli must see some advantage to it I suppose or they wouldn't get involved.
BB
For Pirelli, there's other advantages....
Firstly, they are a single supplier so the one thing they can guarantee is that an F1 car will win on Pirelli tyres.
And secondly, they get paid for the F1 tyres so they get the brand coverage - and get paid for it!
A few varied points.
I live in France which is Michelin territory when it comes to sports tyres. While living here, I have bought two cars that I would have expected to be equipped with Pirellis - Porsche and Alfa. They were both shod with Bridgestone tyres. My guess is that their involvement if F1 effectively removed any perceived negativity towards the brand.
My personal view is that the Shumacher / Ferrari domination was largely down to the fact that once Senna died, Shuey was head and shoulders better than most other drivers,; he was only beaten by better cars - sorry, but I have got that off my chest. That scenario no longer exists, there are plenty of top drivers competing at the same high level now.
During and since the Shuey era, the FIA have brought in a raft of changes, KERS, DRS etc. but Pirelli were asked to produce these silly tyres after the introduction of KERS in 2007, when JB and Brawn were doing a Shuey with their blown diffuser, and everyone was struggling with KERS to the extent that it was not used in 2010.
Next year the goalposts will be moving again, but at least the power packages will have some relevance to the (future) real world. What is desperately needed next year is a durable tyre that allows the manufacturers to develop a stable package. Tyres that are also relevant to racing also need to be durable and reduce fuel consumption. Both of these desirable elements should allow Pirelli to overcome, what I perceive as, the negativity associated with the current fragile tyres - softs capable of only 6 laps and not lightening fast, is nothing short of a joke.
Tyres used in endurance racing give genuinly flexible strategies - longer stints good fuel economy and so are highly relevant to what the general public probably want.
I live in France which is Michelin territory when it comes to sports tyres. While living here, I have bought two cars that I would have expected to be equipped with Pirellis - Porsche and Alfa. They were both shod with Bridgestone tyres. My guess is that their involvement if F1 effectively removed any perceived negativity towards the brand.
My personal view is that the Shumacher / Ferrari domination was largely down to the fact that once Senna died, Shuey was head and shoulders better than most other drivers,; he was only beaten by better cars - sorry, but I have got that off my chest. That scenario no longer exists, there are plenty of top drivers competing at the same high level now.
During and since the Shuey era, the FIA have brought in a raft of changes, KERS, DRS etc. but Pirelli were asked to produce these silly tyres after the introduction of KERS in 2007, when JB and Brawn were doing a Shuey with their blown diffuser, and everyone was struggling with KERS to the extent that it was not used in 2010.
Next year the goalposts will be moving again, but at least the power packages will have some relevance to the (future) real world. What is desperately needed next year is a durable tyre that allows the manufacturers to develop a stable package. Tyres that are also relevant to racing also need to be durable and reduce fuel consumption. Both of these desirable elements should allow Pirelli to overcome, what I perceive as, the negativity associated with the current fragile tyres - softs capable of only 6 laps and not lightening fast, is nothing short of a joke.
Tyres used in endurance racing give genuinly flexible strategies - longer stints good fuel economy and so are highly relevant to what the general public probably want.
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