Faster than F1
Discussion
It's worth having a look at the Gran Turismo 5 game - they asked Adrian Newey a similar question & this is what he came up with - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010
Would this not be theoretically (at least in the first instance) than Formula One? The basis being that the design can be governed more byt theoretical work and known principals rather than trying to eek out performance from a strict set of regulations, which, in theory is much more labour intensive.
alangla said:
It's worth having a look at the Gran Turismo 5 game - they asked Adrian Newey a similar question & this is what he came up with - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010
If it's worth anything to know, the car in game costs 20 million.SimonY said:
"With a clean sheet of paper"
If this means not constrained by any rules its pretty easy.1. Forced induction
2. Active aero
Of course there are heaps of other things you'd do but just those two give such a massive advantage I imagine you could get to current F1 laptimes for a small fraction of the cost of current F1 cars
TobyLaRohne said:
StevieBee said:
It would like exactly this, with side skirts.
That photo makes my heart ache for the days of old when F1 was actually awesome to watch 
Awesome is too smaller word to convey what it was to watch then.
I love F1 now but it's rarely 'awesome' in the same way.
And I do miss the days when a jumped up 18 year kid can phone the Brands Hatch press office and say he's a photographer for the Romford Recorder and get an all access pass, no questions asked
SpeedyDave said:
SimonY said:
"With a clean sheet of paper"
If this means not constrained by any rules its pretty easy.1. Forced induction
2. Active aero
Of course there are heaps of other things you'd do but just those two give such a massive advantage I imagine you could get to current F1 laptimes for a small fraction of the cost of current F1 cars
- active suspension
- ridiculous tyres
- ground effect management if not included in 'active aero'
Edited by mph1977 on Monday 10th June 16:12
mph1977 said:
add in
- active suspension
- ridiculous tyres
- ground effect management if not included in 'active aero'
Of course you could do all of these but surely you need a team of engineers and facilities and therefore are spending huge amounts of cash. The question is with no rules could you get to current F1 pace at £100k/500k/1m/10m? Spaceframe/big turbo production based engine/basic but massive downforce bodywork? Or do you need carbon monocoque, purpose built race engine and your own aero department?- active suspension
- ridiculous tyres
- ground effect management if not included in 'active aero'
Edited by mph1977 on Monday 10th June 16:12
Clearly allot cheaper to build a car to beat an F1 car with no rules, than it will be to build a F1 to beat another F1 car within the rules so I guess to some lose degree theres your answer on cost.
Variables on the base cost:
Engine wise it depends how long you need it to last, naturally.
Aero is clearly the key but it depends which/how many tracks your comparing it to F1 with.
Tyres, buy some old Michelins.... and save a few quid.
Variables on the base cost:
Engine wise it depends how long you need it to last, naturally.
Aero is clearly the key but it depends which/how many tracks your comparing it to F1 with.
Tyres, buy some old Michelins.... and save a few quid.
I'm not a massive fan of the mid 80s turbo cars. To me they look a bit clunky and they don't sound as dramatic as modern cars. They were, of course, by modern standards a real handful with inconsistent power delivery and crude aero grip so they could have dramatic moments.
However, even by the mid 1980s these cars were not THAT dramatic to watch. I think the last era where F1 cars LOOKED like they twitchy and difficult to drive was probably 1967 - the last year before wings.
As for being the fastest, F1/Grand Prix has not ALWAYS been either the fastest not the most advanced cars. From about 1962 onwards, sports cars, both Le Mans prototypes and the American Can Am cars, were both faster and more technically advanced.
In the 1920s and early 1930s, Indianapolis cars were more advanced than both European sports cars and the Grand Prix cars of the era.
However, even by the mid 1980s these cars were not THAT dramatic to watch. I think the last era where F1 cars LOOKED like they twitchy and difficult to drive was probably 1967 - the last year before wings.
As for being the fastest, F1/Grand Prix has not ALWAYS been either the fastest not the most advanced cars. From about 1962 onwards, sports cars, both Le Mans prototypes and the American Can Am cars, were both faster and more technically advanced.
In the 1920s and early 1930s, Indianapolis cars were more advanced than both European sports cars and the Grand Prix cars of the era.
StevieBee said:
TobyLaRohne said:
StevieBee said:
It would like exactly this, with side skirts.
That photo makes my heart ache for the days of old when F1 was actually awesome to watch Awesome is too smaller word to convey what it was to watch then.
I love F1 now but it's rarely 'awesome' in the same way.
And I do miss the days when a jumped up 18 year kid can phone the Brands Hatch press office and say he's a photographer for the Romford Recorder and get an all access pass, no questions asked
Not the most exciting race ever. It was over when Mansell beat Piquet at the tyre stops at the halfway point.
For qually the cars were outrageously fast. Traction was a problem out of corners despite the special tyres. Paddock sorted the men from the boys.
stephen300o said:
StevieBee said:
It would like exactly this, with side skirts.
What an ugly car. And slow too by today's standards.Not just the Williams but cars from this era are widely recognised as being the fastest F1 has ever been. Massive super sticky (and durable) tyres. Huge downforce despite the simplicity of the aero compared to today, special 'rocket' fuel, turbos and 1500 BHP or more in qualifying trim. They were considered to be at the cusp of what was physically able to be driven by a human being.
To understand how quick these cars were, Keke Rosberg lapped Silverstone in 1985 at an average speed of 160mph - with a slow puncture!! - setting a lap record that was never beaten - now impossible to do since the track changes.
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