F1 Pit Stops and Wheel Safety
Discussion
Why on earth in this day and age each wheel nut man doesn't have a button on the back of his gun so when he's certain the wheel is on he presses it.
One this system receives the all clear from each corner it could play a tone into the ear of the lollipop man passing control to him for release of the car.
Shocking to see wheels bouncing down the pit lane - really hope that fella is ok.
One this system receives the all clear from each corner it could play a tone into the ear of the lollipop man passing control to him for release of the car.
Shocking to see wheels bouncing down the pit lane - really hope that fella is ok.
TheExcession said:
Why on earth in this day and age each wheel nut man doesn't have a button on the back of his gun so when he's certain the wheel is on he presses it.
One this system receives the all clear from each corner it could play a tone into the ear of the lollipop man passing control to him for release of the car.
Shocking to see wheels bouncing down the pit lane - really hope that fella is ok.
What happens when the wheel man is 'certain' the wheel is on, and presses the button, when the wheel isn't really on?One this system receives the all clear from each corner it could play a tone into the ear of the lollipop man passing control to him for release of the car.
Shocking to see wheels bouncing down the pit lane - really hope that fella is ok.
Do you want another button for 'doubly certain', or another engineer to double-check the check?
Car shouldn't have been released until everyone was certain anyway, and NO-ONE working in this environment should be facing away from the direction of traffic on a race circuit.
mmm-five said:
and NO-ONE working in this environment should be facing away from the direction of traffic on a race circuit.
Thats the biggest failure here- face the direction of danger, or have a lookout do it for you.Rule 1 of being in any dangerous environment- awareness.
The car was released here in spite of the mechanic so I'm not sure how any fancy system would help.
Hope the cameraman makes a swift recovery.
mmm-five said:
What happens when the wheel man is 'certain' the wheel is on, and presses the button, when the wheel isn't really on?
Do you want another button for 'doubly certain', or another engineer to double-check the check?
Car shouldn't have been released until everyone was certain anyway, and NO-ONE working in this environment should be facing away from the direction of traffic on a race circuit.
Agreed.Do you want another button for 'doubly certain', or another engineer to double-check the check?
Car shouldn't have been released until everyone was certain anyway, and NO-ONE working in this environment should be facing away from the direction of traffic on a race circuit.
And also what happens when the button on the roughly treated gun fails, or the in ear speaker fails, or makes a noise just as another car roars past and the release man isn't sure if he heard it or not?
Putting more things to go wrong in between isn't going to help things. The question i'd ask is why was he let go when not all four wheel men had thier hands up.
However, they are changing 4 tyres in less than 3 seconds under horrendous pressure, mistakes can and will happen. Just another part of the danger in motorsport. Cameramen are thier at thier own risks so i'd suggest its up to them to wear helmets/operate in pits less if they see fit.
hairyben said:
mmm-five said:
and NO-ONE working in this environment should be facing away from the direction of traffic on a race circuit.
Thats the biggest failure here- face the direction of danger, or have a lookout do it for you.Rule 1 of being in any dangerous environment- awareness.
The car was released here in spite of the mechanic so I'm not sure how any fancy system would help.
Hope the cameraman makes a swift recovery.
colonel c said:
Simple really.
There is a mandatory speed limit in the pit lane. The teams know and accept this. They factor in the time in & out with their strategies accordingly with no issue.
So why not a mandatory 5 or 10 seconds that the car must be stationery during a tyre change.
because that boring. Life without risk is not a life. There is a mandatory speed limit in the pit lane. The teams know and accept this. They factor in the time in & out with their strategies accordingly with no issue.
So why not a mandatory 5 or 10 seconds that the car must be stationery during a tyre change.
colonel c said:
Simple really.
So why not a mandatory 5 or 10 seconds that the car must be stationery during a tyre change.
Bad idea. The new tyres are not up to temperature as it is, even though they are taken out of the blankets as late as possible, now you want them to sit still for 10 seconds ? they will drop even more heat and that could be dangerous for everyone in the pit laneSo why not a mandatory 5 or 10 seconds that the car must be stationery during a tyre change.
Ditto for the brakes losing temperature and the engines getting hot with no cooling.
The issue is you can't get around the fact its human error - lollypop man let the car go before the wheel was on.
You could fit a system with pressure sensors on the wheels - if the nut isn't done up hard enough to flip the sensor, the wheel isn't done up properly an alarm will sound in the drivers ear? no noise means he can go. Would it be any more reliable ? not sure.
designndrive62 said:
Yeah I. Sure that cameraman agrees with you...... Not.
Without wishing to be flippant, have you asked the cameraman?As much as avoidable accidents should be minimised, the fact is that accidents do happen and sometimes it's just that.. An accident.
Whenever I participate in motorsport activities, OK I don't expect others to be blatantly negligent but I accept the associated risks.
I've seen plenty of cameramen (and women) who like to get up and 'personal' with what's going on and I have little doubt that most accept that by doing so there is associated risk.
Simple human factors isn't it. Too much pressure for the bloke with the lollipop to deal with. All he needs to do is lift the lollipop once everyone is finished. Too much pressure and/or poor procedures and communications.
Increase the length of stops, in my opinion. Go WEC style, two guys working on the cars. Less bodies in the pitlane.
Increase the length of stops, in my opinion. Go WEC style, two guys working on the cars. Less bodies in the pitlane.
Fire99 said:
Without wishing to be flippant, have you asked the cameraman?
As much as avoidable accidents should be minimised, the fact is that accidents do happen and sometimes it's just that.. An accident.
Whenever I participate in motorsport activities, OK I don't expect others to be blatantly negligent but I accept the associated risks.
I've seen plenty of cameramen (and women) who like to get up and 'personal' with what's going on and I have little doubt that most accept that by doing so there is associated risk.
What you're saying is true, but you're ignoring the fact that Red Bull made an unsafe release. It doesn't matter why, they just did. To quote the great man Newey himself, there is no spirit of the regulations, it is either legal or illegal and Red Bull made an unsafe release. An illegal release.As much as avoidable accidents should be minimised, the fact is that accidents do happen and sometimes it's just that.. An accident.
Whenever I participate in motorsport activities, OK I don't expect others to be blatantly negligent but I accept the associated risks.
I've seen plenty of cameramen (and women) who like to get up and 'personal' with what's going on and I have little doubt that most accept that by doing so there is associated risk.
Bud, a marshal died a few years back because of a flying wheel and whilst nobody is suggesting nanny over reacting, your attitude of flippant disregard stinks. I watch and participate in motorsports and sign all the 'at your own risk' statements too, but that doesn't give another party license to put my life at risk with negligent actions.
That cameraman was doing his job and Red Bull put his life in real danger with what they did, no matter how unintentional and you cannot excuse that as you are trying to do. In fact you're almost blaming the cameraman for being there in the first place. Unvelievable.
spunkytherabbit said:
What you're saying is true, but you're ignoring the fact that Red Bull made an unsafe release. It doesn't matter why, they just did. To quote the great man Newey himself, there is no spirit of the regulations, it is either legal or illegal and Red Bull made an unsafe release. An illegal release.
Bud, a marshal died a few years back because of a flying wheel and whilst nobody is suggesting nanny over reacting, your attitude of flippant disregard stinks. I watch and participate in motorsports and sign all the 'at your own risk' statements too, but that doesn't give another party license to put my life at risk with negligent actions.
That cameraman was doing his job and Red Bull put his life in real danger with what they did, no matter how unintentional and you cannot excuse that as you are trying to do. In fact you're almost blaming the cameraman for being there in the first place. Unvelievable.
From the tone you give in the above message im guessing that if you were in the camerman's shoes you'd have the solicitors involved by now? Sometimes accidents happen, no negligence involved here just a mistake that unfortunately has led to someone being hurt.Bud, a marshal died a few years back because of a flying wheel and whilst nobody is suggesting nanny over reacting, your attitude of flippant disregard stinks. I watch and participate in motorsports and sign all the 'at your own risk' statements too, but that doesn't give another party license to put my life at risk with negligent actions.
That cameraman was doing his job and Red Bull put his life in real danger with what they did, no matter how unintentional and you cannot excuse that as you are trying to do. In fact you're almost blaming the cameraman for being there in the first place. Unvelievable.
RobGT81 said:
Simple human factors isn't it. Too much pressure for the bloke with the lollipop to deal with. All he needs to do is lift the lollipop once everyone is finished. Too much pressure and/or poor procedures and communications.
Increase the length of stops, in my opinion. Go WEC style, two guys working on the cars. Less bodies in the pitlane.
Why are people blaming the lollipop man? Increase the length of stops, in my opinion. Go WEC style, two guys working on the cars. Less bodies in the pitlane.
The guy on the wheel gun had his arm up for ages as though he'd done his job properly and was free to release. It seems he got distracted with the slow rear change and didn't finish his part of the job.
spunkytherabbit said:
That cameraman was doing his job and Red Bull put his life in real danger with what they did, no matter how unintentional and you cannot excuse that as you are trying to do. In fact you're almost blaming the cameraman for being there in the first place. Unvelievable.
Well, he (as the rest of us) knows it is quite a dangerous place. He has accepted that risk by being there.Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff