Discussion
Firstly I will say that these are my thoughts and do not represent the teams or Tim's
It would be all 4 classes fighting for overall if it wasn't for the rule that means although there were 3 cars entered and raced in 2 of the 3 races the fact that one had a mechanical failure that meant it could not run in the 3rd race penalises others in the same class. Surely this alone could discourage new people entering the championship in case other peoples problems stopped them having a chance in the overall championship.
It would be now pointless us continuing the rest of the rounds as without us there could only be 2 cars in A+ giving them half points but that would not be enough for anyone else to win class A+
We have put a lot of time and effort into this car and it now all seems worthless as we are no longer in contention for the overall championship.
Seven pole positions, seven fastest laps and seven wins and nowhere in the championship
Maybe we should just have a MG in our class....
It would be all 4 classes fighting for overall if it wasn't for the rule that means although there were 3 cars entered and raced in 2 of the 3 races the fact that one had a mechanical failure that meant it could not run in the 3rd race penalises others in the same class. Surely this alone could discourage new people entering the championship in case other peoples problems stopped them having a chance in the overall championship.
It would be now pointless us continuing the rest of the rounds as without us there could only be 2 cars in A+ giving them half points but that would not be enough for anyone else to win class A+
We have put a lot of time and effort into this car and it now all seems worthless as we are no longer in contention for the overall championship.
Seven pole positions, seven fastest laps and seven wins and nowhere in the championship
Maybe we should just have a MG in our class....
There is a flip side to Terry's view:
Firstly, we all - drivers, organisers and anyone else with an interest in the series - should encourage as many participants as possible, particularly in the thinly represented classes outside "A".
Secondly, we should all go into the Championship being fully aware of the rules and the risk of losing points for a less than 3 car start in class - just ask Dave Chant about how much back-room work he did to try to guarantee at least 3 cars in Class C when he raced his Tasmin and was a contender for the Championship.
Thirdly, Class A+ has enjoyed a fair turn-out up to Anglesey with Fred Tonge, Steve Glynn and Mike Saunders out this year + other aero Tuscans such as Perry Waddams and Neil Sampson to be enticed to turn out (I understand that Perry hopes to be at Donington).
Lastly it only takes a DNF from any leading car in any class to open up the Championship for the hunting pack behind!
Firstly, we all - drivers, organisers and anyone else with an interest in the series - should encourage as many participants as possible, particularly in the thinly represented classes outside "A".
Secondly, we should all go into the Championship being fully aware of the rules and the risk of losing points for a less than 3 car start in class - just ask Dave Chant about how much back-room work he did to try to guarantee at least 3 cars in Class C when he raced his Tasmin and was a contender for the Championship.
Thirdly, Class A+ has enjoyed a fair turn-out up to Anglesey with Fred Tonge, Steve Glynn and Mike Saunders out this year + other aero Tuscans such as Perry Waddams and Neil Sampson to be enticed to turn out (I understand that Perry hopes to be at Donington).
Lastly it only takes a DNF from any leading car in any class to open up the Championship for the hunting pack behind!
If I turned out it would be pointless 
There is no easy answer to Points and how they are calculated . It affects not just the TVR challenge. As it stands, I am leading the overall GT Championship by four points at Combe and I lead my class. Any car that enters the championship collects points and so cars entering next weekend could ruin my overall chances even with only two rounds to go. It seams unfair at first but I understand if you want cars on the grid. The opposite to what Tim is saying but I understand the frustration points can be. Seams crazy a car that is winning all the time comes no where in the overall of the challenge. Class A+ is a new class this season for aero cars as I understand it and there are only a few cars running it.Frustrating but at least you have bigger grids in the Challenge now.
There is no easy answer to Points and how they are calculated . It affects not just the TVR challenge. As it stands, I am leading the overall GT Championship by four points at Combe and I lead my class. Any car that enters the championship collects points and so cars entering next weekend could ruin my overall chances even with only two rounds to go. It seams unfair at first but I understand if you want cars on the grid. The opposite to what Tim is saying but I understand the frustration points can be. Seams crazy a car that is winning all the time comes no where in the overall of the challenge. Class A+ is a new class this season for aero cars as I understand it and there are only a few cars running it.Frustrating but at least you have bigger grids in the Challenge now.
Jetblackonetenth said:
Firstly I will say that these are my thoughts and do not represent the teams or Tim's
It would be all 4 classes fighting for overall if it wasn't for the rule that means although there were 3 cars entered and raced in 2 of the 3 races the fact that one had a mechanical failure that meant it could not run in the 3rd race penalises others in the same class. Surely this alone could discourage new people entering the championship in case other peoples problems stopped them having a chance in the overall championship.
It would be now pointless us continuing the rest of the rounds as without us there could only be 2 cars in A+ giving them half points but that would not be enough for anyone else to win class A+
We have put a lot of time and effort into this car and it now all seems worthless as we are no longer in contention for the overall championship.
Seven pole positions, seven fastest laps and seven wins and nowhere in the championship
Maybe we should just have a MG in our class....
I feel your pain....In 2011 I had 10 Class C poles, 10 Class C wins, 10 Class fastest laps, and a couple of Class C lap records but only came third overall. I also put a lot on time and money into my car but hey, that's the way the crumby cuccles. Keep going with your head down It would be all 4 classes fighting for overall if it wasn't for the rule that means although there were 3 cars entered and raced in 2 of the 3 races the fact that one had a mechanical failure that meant it could not run in the 3rd race penalises others in the same class. Surely this alone could discourage new people entering the championship in case other peoples problems stopped them having a chance in the overall championship.
It would be now pointless us continuing the rest of the rounds as without us there could only be 2 cars in A+ giving them half points but that would not be enough for anyone else to win class A+
We have put a lot of time and effort into this car and it now all seems worthless as we are no longer in contention for the overall championship.
Seven pole positions, seven fastest laps and seven wins and nowhere in the championship
Maybe we should just have a MG in our class....
NTEL said:
I feel your pain....In 2011 I had 10 Class C poles, 10 Class C wins, 10 Class fastest laps, and a couple of Class C lap records but only came third overall. I also put a lot on time and money into my car but hey, that's the way the crumby cuccles. Keep going with your head down
Maybe by now they should have changed the regs to encourage people to come and race. You would have thought with the struggle to get class B & C cars out this would have been looked at before. Did you not have any MG's to put in your class to make numbers up?Unfortunately due to previous commitments I have only been able to race at the first round at Silverstone but I'm hoping I'll be out again for Rockingham.
With regards to the points issues that have come up for leading cars over the years, I would have thought that there would be a difference in the rules when 3 plus cars have entered a race weekend, turned up and competed with the intention of doing all the races that weekend; Having an issue which prevents one or possibly more from doing the final race of the "same round" is a slightly different context than there only being 2 cars entered in the first place. After all, that car/cars would still appear on the grid listing from the results of the previous race.
In my view that's a significant difference from a known expectation that only 2 cars are entered in a given class from the start of the weekend. At least then you're turning up knowing that you're only on half points irrespective of what happens. Otherwise it seems that you're potentially reliant on other competitors cars reliability which to me is not in the spirit of competitive racing! For example a competitor could purposefully pull out of a race in order to affect the points tally of the Championship - surely that's not right?
With regards to the points issues that have come up for leading cars over the years, I would have thought that there would be a difference in the rules when 3 plus cars have entered a race weekend, turned up and competed with the intention of doing all the races that weekend; Having an issue which prevents one or possibly more from doing the final race of the "same round" is a slightly different context than there only being 2 cars entered in the first place. After all, that car/cars would still appear on the grid listing from the results of the previous race.
In my view that's a significant difference from a known expectation that only 2 cars are entered in a given class from the start of the weekend. At least then you're turning up knowing that you're only on half points irrespective of what happens. Otherwise it seems that you're potentially reliant on other competitors cars reliability which to me is not in the spirit of competitive racing! For example a competitor could purposefully pull out of a race in order to affect the points tally of the Championship - surely that's not right?
NTEL said:
This is all old stuff and been discussed before. If anybody has a query with the rules you are better off taking it up with Reidy when he gets back off his hols.........
Wasn't querying the rules I know them all even the ones that are not adhered to. If we ran strictly to all the rules the championship table would look totally different. All I was saying that this rule does not encourage the smaller classes to come out and race, and it is very disheartening to be only given half points because someone else had a problem.Graham said:
Terry 3 races left and 66 points on the table, you know as well as I do that its not over till its over.. :-)
It is for us too many class A cars and reliability including ours (at the moment) seems good.I would just feel better if the Challenge did not pick and choose which regs it wishes to adhere to and which regs it wishes to ignore.
Jetblackonetenth said:
It is for us too many class A cars and reliability including ours (at the moment) seems good.
I would just feel better if the Challenge did not pick and choose which regs it wishes to adhere to and which regs it wishes to ignore.
I dunno, whats the difference 9 points between 1st and 4th? and then 19 almost a win between 4th and 5th...I would just feel better if the Challenge did not pick and choose which regs it wishes to adhere to and which regs it wishes to ignore.
Deano has the hardest job with the most competition, Jim almost beat Chris in race 1, if i take my eye off the ball either of the daves will jump in and neil should be up to speed now..
I reckon your still in with a good shout reliability or a mistake will cost any of us dearly..
Cheers
G
( p.s. I have nothing to do with the regs or points :-) other than constantly badgering Reidy to sort things out lol )
a wise man once told me and i quote "points make pratts"
i can agree and laugh about that now! but only because i am not in with a shout this year due to a dnf and some issues at silverstone!
i have also been affected by this rule in the past but had to take it on the chin as rules are rules, which we all new about before the season started, everyone will tell you they are only in it for the racing but that changes if you find yourself in with a shout.
the only way to cure this is to get more cars in the classes.
but as Graham says, it ain't over till its over and anything can happen.
i can agree and laugh about that now! but only because i am not in with a shout this year due to a dnf and some issues at silverstone!
i have also been affected by this rule in the past but had to take it on the chin as rules are rules, which we all new about before the season started, everyone will tell you they are only in it for the racing but that changes if you find yourself in with a shout.
the only way to cure this is to get more cars in the classes.
but as Graham says, it ain't over till its over and anything can happen.
Yes Tim and if I remember dad was leading the championship overall at the time... We've always said that though, we race purely for fun and if silverware comes then thats a bonus!! Ive seen us walk away from championships because dad wasnt enjoying the racing in the past when in MGs...
Bill, Dunlop dont currently make a crossply slick for the MGs, hence why Piers is still on Avons. When I asked JR if MGs could race with us, it was as invitation so not sure what JR has done since... I do still hope that some of the other lads come out as a lot of folk will get a shock at how quick they can be!! Ask Deano lol
Dave
Bill, Dunlop dont currently make a crossply slick for the MGs, hence why Piers is still on Avons. When I asked JR if MGs could race with us, it was as invitation so not sure what JR has done since... I do still hope that some of the other lads come out as a lot of folk will get a shock at how quick they can be!! Ask Deano lol
Dave
Edited by ctsdave on Monday 19th August 20:55
tbdgriff500 said:
i have also been affected by this rule in the past but had to take it on the chin as rules are rules, which we all new about before the season started, .
I am not bothered about taking it on the chin and as I said I was aware of this rule. However what makes it hard to swallow is the fact that this rule is rigidly stuck to when other rules are completely ignored all of which would affect championship positions.'Rules are rules' but how come some rules are Not rules?
bill tvr said:
I wasn't aware of that Dave , and for the record its good that Piers is with us ..he's a nice chap and we need more of the likes of him ....scenario ... 3 mgs racing with us and getting max points and winning the TVR championship ...how would that sit ?
Have no objections to MG's racing with us and Piers seems a really nice chap who is enjoying the racing, but I was thinking exactly the same, MG's should and were invitation class.Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff