Dunlop Sport Maxx Cup - First race
Discussion
In the late 80s and early 90s Production saloon car racing was massive in the UK, with multiclass grids of everything from Cosworths to Suzuki Swifts battling - all in standard production spec.
In 2007,Dunlop and the British Automobile Racing Club are relaunching the concept, and the first round of the new Dunlop Sport Maxx Cup takes place at Snetterton on April 29th.
Expect to see Nissan 350Z battling with Megane 230 R26 and Astra VXR, and Puntos, Clios and Mini Coopers in the baby class as the series grows in its first year.
12 cars are entered for the first ever round, and twenty cars are expected by the end of the year. Dunlop are investing in this series to build a true feeder series to the Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship
More information at driversknow.co.uk/greatbritishfestivals
Fancy competing?
Then enter Dunlop Race Academy 2007 and you could be on the grid in a SEAT Leon FR!
In 2007,Dunlop and the British Automobile Racing Club are relaunching the concept, and the first round of the new Dunlop Sport Maxx Cup takes place at Snetterton on April 29th.
Expect to see Nissan 350Z battling with Megane 230 R26 and Astra VXR, and Puntos, Clios and Mini Coopers in the baby class as the series grows in its first year.
12 cars are entered for the first ever round, and twenty cars are expected by the end of the year. Dunlop are investing in this series to build a true feeder series to the Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship
More information at driversknow.co.uk/greatbritishfestivals
Fancy competing?
Then enter Dunlop Race Academy 2007 and you could be on the grid in a SEAT Leon FR!
The 80's/90's = big success of production saloons! Uniroyal, Monroe, and Firestone prodsaloon chamionships were a big success, full grids, even 24 hr (willhire) races, a friend of mine (ADJ) won the willhire 24 hours twice (first one (81 Opel?) and last one, 93 Cosworth?).
Racing grid was Capri's, Starions, Escort RST, Astra GTE, Nova Sports, Monza, Suzuki Swifts, Cosworths (3dr then Saphire 2wd) Merc 190 2.3 16v.
Would be good to see something similar again, I'd love to have a goespecially as its going to be on TV.
But the reality is budgets are huge, Vauxhall (888 racing?) are asking for £50k for a race ready Astra VXR prod saloon. That is ridiculous if its a production saloon that costs £20k.
I've asked if for this year they'll accept me in my Honda Integra Type R DC2, but rules state max age = 6 yrs or less so not really expecting much!
Racing grid was Capri's, Starions, Escort RST, Astra GTE, Nova Sports, Monza, Suzuki Swifts, Cosworths (3dr then Saphire 2wd) Merc 190 2.3 16v.
Would be good to see something similar again, I'd love to have a goespecially as its going to be on TV.
But the reality is budgets are huge, Vauxhall (888 racing?) are asking for £50k for a race ready Astra VXR prod saloon. That is ridiculous if its a production saloon that costs £20k.
I've asked if for this year they'll accept me in my Honda Integra Type R DC2, but rules state max age = 6 yrs or less so not really expecting much!
rsossi said:
I've asked if for this year they'll accept me in my Honda Integra Type R DC2, but rules state max age = 6 yrs or less so not really expecting much!
i think that's the problem.... how can you justify spending that amount of money on a car that will become obsolete in 6 years, you'll have no where to race it so it'll be almost worthless...
I understand that they might want to raise the profile of the series (including, presumably works or semi works teams) by having current model ranges compete but 12 cars for the opening race and "hoping for 20 cars by the end of the year" is pathetic. Certainly should not turn away someone whose car complies with the regs, even if it is now out of production. After all the BTCC did not turn away the WSR MG team, even when MG had gone bust, did they?
Good point. If they're looking for more teams to fill the grid, then expecting them to spend £50k on a car and half as much again running it, for only a part season, is, um, flawed...
6 years is a very early cutoff. It's practically aiming at a junior BTCC feeder and little else.
We had that a few years ago with national saloons tacked onto the back of the BTCC grid and they seemed to be ex-karters with serious backers and very similar budgets to those quoted above (maybe a little higher).
You want full grids, let in cars that can be prepped for £10k (a DC2 is a great example) and people will be able to afford to race.
Put a 10 or 12 year-old limit on it if you have to. Those ex-national saloons would be ideal and were well prepped cars. Still relating to what the public sees and drives on the road. When they get to 10 years old they're still worth £4k as a trackday car.
Any obvious flaws in the above?
6 years is a very early cutoff. It's practically aiming at a junior BTCC feeder and little else.
We had that a few years ago with national saloons tacked onto the back of the BTCC grid and they seemed to be ex-karters with serious backers and very similar budgets to those quoted above (maybe a little higher).
You want full grids, let in cars that can be prepped for £10k (a DC2 is a great example) and people will be able to afford to race.
Put a 10 or 12 year-old limit on it if you have to. Those ex-national saloons would be ideal and were well prepped cars. Still relating to what the public sees and drives on the road. When they get to 10 years old they're still worth £4k as a trackday car.
Any obvious flaws in the above?
FNG said:
Good point. If they're looking for more teams to fill the grid, then expecting them to spend £50k on a car and half as much again running it, for only a part season, is, um, flawed...
6 years is a very early cutoff. It's practically aiming at a junior BTCC feeder and little else.
We had that a few years ago with national saloons tacked onto the back of the BTCC grid and they seemed to be ex-karters with serious backers and very similar budgets to those quoted above (maybe a little higher).
You want full grids, let in cars that can be prepped for £10k (a DC2 is a great example) and people will be able to afford to race.
Put a 10 or 12 year-old limit on it if you have to. Those ex-national saloons would be ideal and were well prepped cars. Still relating to what the public sees and drives on the road. When they get to 10 years old they're still worth £4k as a trackday car.
Any obvious flaws in the above?
6 years is a very early cutoff. It's practically aiming at a junior BTCC feeder and little else.
We had that a few years ago with national saloons tacked onto the back of the BTCC grid and they seemed to be ex-karters with serious backers and very similar budgets to those quoted above (maybe a little higher).
You want full grids, let in cars that can be prepped for £10k (a DC2 is a great example) and people will be able to afford to race.
Put a 10 or 12 year-old limit on it if you have to. Those ex-national saloons would be ideal and were well prepped cars. Still relating to what the public sees and drives on the road. When they get to 10 years old they're still worth £4k as a trackday car.
Any obvious flaws in the above?
Or, have a Class B if you have to, for cars of 6-12 years old until grids in Class A can nsustain themselves.
Hi
I'm the sponsors rep for the Sport Maxx Cup, and I'm delighted with the interest so far. The first championship year is 2008, with 2007 being a pilot series.
We have indications that 20 new cars will be built during the year, and the fact that 12 new builds (not cars poached from other series) have already been completed is testimony to the interest out there. Thanks to those who have committed from the start. Our aim for the first championship season is 20-25 cars out regularly.
National Saloons in Gp N spec are much more modified than a Sport Maxx Cup car, and have a very healthy series (Production S1) to compete in. We could have boosted the grid with these cars, and with Clio Cup cars, for example, but that would only be taking cars that were eligible for existing series, such as Britcar
This is a different concept to national saloons or Prod S1. Very standard cars, many of them being road legal, and running on standard road tyres. Our research suggests that there is a big interest level out there.
And yes, some companies (such as 888) have quoted £37K for supplying an off the shelf Astra (not the £50K mentioned above) but you don't HAVE to buy one. It is perfectly feasable to get the same car prepped yourself on track for under £20K, and maybe less if you start with a lightly damaged one!
We also have a Clio and a Punto entered which have both cost under £10K to buy, build and prepare and will be featured in two magazine features later in the year.
Keeping the cars contemporary (eg: Have had to be on sale in last 5 years) is important if we are to attract dealer sponsorship. However, it doesn't mean the basic car has to be less than 5 years old.
Here is an example: Alfa GTV. It went off sale in 2006, so it can be raced in the Sport Maxx Cup until 2011. However, as long as the car was built to a contemporary specification, it could be based around a 1996 bodyshell. This is one model that could therefore be put on track for about £6K, including buying the car, and raced until 2011. After that, it could race in many other championships.
Similar opportunities to start with a cheaper old shape car exist with other cars that were on the market a long time. The Alfa 156, Punto HGT, Clio 172, Audi TT, BMW 330 (old shape), MG ZR/ZS, Toyota Celica VVT are ones that immediately spring to mind.
Hope to see you on the grid soon!
I'm the sponsors rep for the Sport Maxx Cup, and I'm delighted with the interest so far. The first championship year is 2008, with 2007 being a pilot series.
We have indications that 20 new cars will be built during the year, and the fact that 12 new builds (not cars poached from other series) have already been completed is testimony to the interest out there. Thanks to those who have committed from the start. Our aim for the first championship season is 20-25 cars out regularly.
National Saloons in Gp N spec are much more modified than a Sport Maxx Cup car, and have a very healthy series (Production S1) to compete in. We could have boosted the grid with these cars, and with Clio Cup cars, for example, but that would only be taking cars that were eligible for existing series, such as Britcar
This is a different concept to national saloons or Prod S1. Very standard cars, many of them being road legal, and running on standard road tyres. Our research suggests that there is a big interest level out there.
And yes, some companies (such as 888) have quoted £37K for supplying an off the shelf Astra (not the £50K mentioned above) but you don't HAVE to buy one. It is perfectly feasable to get the same car prepped yourself on track for under £20K, and maybe less if you start with a lightly damaged one!
We also have a Clio and a Punto entered which have both cost under £10K to buy, build and prepare and will be featured in two magazine features later in the year.
Keeping the cars contemporary (eg: Have had to be on sale in last 5 years) is important if we are to attract dealer sponsorship. However, it doesn't mean the basic car has to be less than 5 years old.
Here is an example: Alfa GTV. It went off sale in 2006, so it can be raced in the Sport Maxx Cup until 2011. However, as long as the car was built to a contemporary specification, it could be based around a 1996 bodyshell. This is one model that could therefore be put on track for about £6K, including buying the car, and raced until 2011. After that, it could race in many other championships.
Similar opportunities to start with a cheaper old shape car exist with other cars that were on the market a long time. The Alfa 156, Punto HGT, Clio 172, Audi TT, BMW 330 (old shape), MG ZR/ZS, Toyota Celica VVT are ones that immediately spring to mind.
Hope to see you on the grid soon!
Redlake - I don't agree that you are not affecting other series.
This series has had its fair share of PR - with both Dunlop and 888/Vauxhall adding their voices to the series. Now you have 12 cars for the first round which is woeful.
Not only have you 12 drivers who could have boosted other championship but what purpose does it serve? This series is nothing more than a commercial stunt created by Dunlop and 888 in order to sell some product.
Worse of all you have 12 cars split over how many classes? A joke and I for one wished that the MSA would cull these series/championship that are unsupported and serve nobody's interest except the commerical entities behind them.
This series has had its fair share of PR - with both Dunlop and 888/Vauxhall adding their voices to the series. Now you have 12 cars for the first round which is woeful.
Not only have you 12 drivers who could have boosted other championship but what purpose does it serve? This series is nothing more than a commercial stunt created by Dunlop and 888 in order to sell some product.
Worse of all you have 12 cars split over how many classes? A joke and I for one wished that the MSA would cull these series/championship that are unsupported and serve nobody's interest except the commerical entities behind them.
redlake27 said:
Ermmm, there is a list of eligible cars and any others need to be considered by the scrutineer.
I'm confident that until Mosler build a shopping car, you won't see it in this series!
I'm confident that until Mosler build a shopping car, you won't see it in this series!
I could complain about discrimination here - you've allowed three GT2 eligible cars in (the Nissan 350Z, BMW CSL and Monaro), but aren't letting others in...
Still beggars belief that 888 can charge £45k (inc VAT) for a stripped out road car with a cage, dampers, springs and a baffled sump though - that's well over twice the price of the road car.
Looking at the regs a BMW CSL or RS4 would/should walk it.
I went hot-foot to the tech regs in anticipation here, but I'm afraid I'm disappointed.
There are five categories, which is two too many when you have a possible grid of 20 cars and pathetic when you have only 12 entries.
The category break points don't work either:
Class A - upto 110bhp/ton
Class B - 110-130bhp/ton
Class C - 131-160bhp/ton
Class D - over 161bhp/ton
Class E - anything 4WD
It's perfectly possible to get an old Clio 172 and prep it for under £10k as redlake27 states. In fact from some cars I've seen on sale I reckon £7k is feasible, though tight.
That puts you in class C. So what value do two lower classes add? One, yes. But you can't argue Class A as an entry level category when the budget to prep two classes beyond is so low.
You also get absolutely masses of midsize hatchbacks - Megane, Focus, Astra, Ibiza, Golf - plus a lot of other potentially good cars like RX8, Accord Type R etc, in the 160-170bhp/ton bracket, competing against BMW M3 & CSL, Monaro, 350Z with 200bhp/ton and upwards. The RWDs have a traction advantage off the line anyway, and then superior power/weight to clear off into the distance.
So why would you get any one of those hatches? They're more accessible to buy and enter on a reasonable budget but you know before you start that to win Class D you need a M3 or CSL and that raises the bar, a lot.
Reorganise the break points to:
Class A - upto 125bhp/ton
Class B - 126-170bhp/ton
Class C - 171-210bhp/ton
If you don't have an upper limit on the upper category you get the richest guys winning the races cos they all have a CSL with 255bhp/ton racing Ibizas with 164bhp/ton. And there's no freedom of technical regs to allow clever teams to redress the balance. Does not compute.
And if someone wants to trade power at the wheels for traction by entering a 4WD, then let them. Their choice, limited by upper power/weight limit.
IMO. I was wondering about prepping my Clio for this but I can't see it flying TBH.
There are five categories, which is two too many when you have a possible grid of 20 cars and pathetic when you have only 12 entries.
The category break points don't work either:
Class A - upto 110bhp/ton
Class B - 110-130bhp/ton
Class C - 131-160bhp/ton
Class D - over 161bhp/ton
Class E - anything 4WD
It's perfectly possible to get an old Clio 172 and prep it for under £10k as redlake27 states. In fact from some cars I've seen on sale I reckon £7k is feasible, though tight.
That puts you in class C. So what value do two lower classes add? One, yes. But you can't argue Class A as an entry level category when the budget to prep two classes beyond is so low.
You also get absolutely masses of midsize hatchbacks - Megane, Focus, Astra, Ibiza, Golf - plus a lot of other potentially good cars like RX8, Accord Type R etc, in the 160-170bhp/ton bracket, competing against BMW M3 & CSL, Monaro, 350Z with 200bhp/ton and upwards. The RWDs have a traction advantage off the line anyway, and then superior power/weight to clear off into the distance.
So why would you get any one of those hatches? They're more accessible to buy and enter on a reasonable budget but you know before you start that to win Class D you need a M3 or CSL and that raises the bar, a lot.
Reorganise the break points to:
Class A - upto 125bhp/ton
Class B - 126-170bhp/ton
Class C - 171-210bhp/ton
If you don't have an upper limit on the upper category you get the richest guys winning the races cos they all have a CSL with 255bhp/ton racing Ibizas with 164bhp/ton. And there's no freedom of technical regs to allow clever teams to redress the balance. Does not compute.
And if someone wants to trade power at the wheels for traction by entering a 4WD, then let them. Their choice, limited by upper power/weight limit.
IMO. I was wondering about prepping my Clio for this but I can't see it flying TBH.
The first year of the championship is 2008, and the 2007 races are pilot events. We will learn a lot during these events and I'm sure any learnings will be included in the 2008 championship to ensure a fair playing field.
Remember in 2005 BTCC had 10 cars, in 2007 it has 26+ cars. BARC and Dunlop both played an active role in the growth of that series, and we hope to apply some of similar initiatives to the Sport Maxx Cup
Our research suggests there is a demand for a close to standard series (sub Group N) The next few months will tell us more.
The costs of competing in this are significantly lower than other series with a similar profile. You don't need a £37K car, you could win the championship in a £10K car.
Remember in 2005 BTCC had 10 cars, in 2007 it has 26+ cars. BARC and Dunlop both played an active role in the growth of that series, and we hope to apply some of similar initiatives to the Sport Maxx Cup
Our research suggests there is a demand for a close to standard series (sub Group N) The next few months will tell us more.
The costs of competing in this are significantly lower than other series with a similar profile. You don't need a £37K car, you could win the championship in a £10K car.
I don't argue that the costs and very limited mods are a good thing.
I'm more bothered that the sort of cars you can enter without only having one or two seasons' use left in them aren't placed very competitively - certainly you can write off a Class D championship win unless you've got £50k to invest in season one.
For that matter I think you'd have to be mental to buy a 888 Astra VXR considering where it's placed in its class.
TBH I also don't think that sub-100bhp/ton cars will make for exciting racing, certainly not on TV, and the point of such a low-powered class is lost on me too.
I wish you all the best with it but I don't think it stacks up as the classes are segregated at the moment.
I'm more bothered that the sort of cars you can enter without only having one or two seasons' use left in them aren't placed very competitively - certainly you can write off a Class D championship win unless you've got £50k to invest in season one.
For that matter I think you'd have to be mental to buy a 888 Astra VXR considering where it's placed in its class.
TBH I also don't think that sub-100bhp/ton cars will make for exciting racing, certainly not on TV, and the point of such a low-powered class is lost on me too.
I wish you all the best with it but I don't think it stacks up as the classes are segregated at the moment.
redlake27 said:
The first year of the championship is 2008, and the 2007 races are pilot events. We will learn a lot during these events and I'm sure any learnings will be included in the 2008 championship to ensure a fair playing field.
Remember in 2005 BTCC had 10 cars, in 2007 it has 26+ cars. BARC and Dunlop both played an active role in the growth of that series, and we hope to apply some of similar initiatives to the Sport Maxx Cup
Our research suggests there is a demand for a close to standard series (sub Group N) The next few months will tell us more.
The costs of competing in this are significantly lower than other series with a similar profile. You don't need a £37K car, you could win the championship in a £10K car.
Remember in 2005 BTCC had 10 cars, in 2007 it has 26+ cars. BARC and Dunlop both played an active role in the growth of that series, and we hope to apply some of similar initiatives to the Sport Maxx Cup
Our research suggests there is a demand for a close to standard series (sub Group N) The next few months will tell us more.
The costs of competing in this are significantly lower than other series with a similar profile. You don't need a £37K car, you could win the championship in a £10K car.
Total and utter PR guff.
BTCC has more cars on the grid but of what quality? Those that run outside of the top 10-15 are utter rubbish - not only from a driver but also from a team/equipment viewpoint. And where do you get 26+ from?? At Rockingham only 25 qualified and some of the guys are 4, 5 and even 7 seconds per lap off the pace - so what does that add to the series?
Why does the UK need another series/championship? With 12 cars spread across your multitude of classes it shows that it isn't wanted so please stop trying to sell it..
If anyone wants to go motor racing cheaply and in front of the right crowd then do the Renault Clio cup - sadly that doesn't suit you because it is a Michelin series but be happy supplying all the BTCC cars..
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