Class 3 entries to Britcar
Discussion
As it stands there are (very disappointingly) only 5 entries to Class 3 in Britcar for the 2008 season. Is there anyone else not registered who is planning to race in this class?
If so, please let Claire at EERC know as soon as possible.
It hardly seems worth doing if there is only going to be a few of us....!!!!!!
If so, please let Claire at EERC know as soon as possible.
It hardly seems worth doing if there is only going to be a few of us....!!!!!!
Good day Simon,
I am in the very same boat myself with my erstwhile Class 4 Volvo.
According to an up to date list from Claire yesterday both Class 3 and 4 are in the same state.......
I am making some expensive changes to the S60 as we speak as it was my intention to come out and play with you bigger boys as I reckonned it was not worth turning out in the smallest class just for half points...now looks like we are all in the same boat.
Frankly I dont think it is worth any of us joining the circus this year in either class on a formal basis with the new up front and non returnable deposits required plus a lack of interest in these two classes.
The PS1 races dont interest me as I have spent a lot developing a proper reliable longer distance car.
Maybe a few 'Britcar' rounds when it suits us and JT and fill in with some trips to Holland and maybe find ourselves someone else's events to play at.....if they have some time to sell.
Just maybe worth JT running a combined 'touring car' class with longer or additional pitstops for the Class 3 cars to make a reasonably level playing field for maybe 8 to 10 cars which we can all commit to for this year.
Regards, Don.Norchi.
email don@kalmar-union.com
I am in the very same boat myself with my erstwhile Class 4 Volvo.
According to an up to date list from Claire yesterday both Class 3 and 4 are in the same state.......
I am making some expensive changes to the S60 as we speak as it was my intention to come out and play with you bigger boys as I reckonned it was not worth turning out in the smallest class just for half points...now looks like we are all in the same boat.
Frankly I dont think it is worth any of us joining the circus this year in either class on a formal basis with the new up front and non returnable deposits required plus a lack of interest in these two classes.
The PS1 races dont interest me as I have spent a lot developing a proper reliable longer distance car.
Maybe a few 'Britcar' rounds when it suits us and JT and fill in with some trips to Holland and maybe find ourselves someone else's events to play at.....if they have some time to sell.
Just maybe worth JT running a combined 'touring car' class with longer or additional pitstops for the Class 3 cars to make a reasonably level playing field for maybe 8 to 10 cars which we can all commit to for this year.
Regards, Don.Norchi.
email don@kalmar-union.com
....and the uncontrolled spiriling of pace in Britcar which means your standard cheap to run class 3 and 4 cars are no longer fun (to much time mirror watching for a start) or competitive because every standard option car needs upgrading to be fast in class, but for what purpose to the people spending the money?
Maybe this chap Mark could make room for some Class 3/4 cars, and make the entry prices a little sharper. Quite a few of us are all dressed up with nowhere to go......
Britcar entry fees have risen constantly these past few seasons with no added value for the participants, plus now we are being asked to pay up front a non returnable deposit for a minimum of 8 events.
Regards, Don.
Britcar entry fees have risen constantly these past few seasons with no added value for the participants, plus now we are being asked to pay up front a non returnable deposit for a minimum of 8 events.
Regards, Don.
Hi i am new to this forum but not new to britcar,i also am entered in class 4 and am annoyed by the lack of entries.The problem being the spiralling costs of trying to make the cars competetive.But i enjoy this type of racing and am looking forward to the coming season and i believe this is the best racing series in the uk.
From what I have been told, 50% of the entry fee will be moved to another round if there is a mechanical issue preventing you from racing as long as it's outside of the 14day rule. Not a huge benefit really but hey ho. Personally I think it's wrong and will create bad feeling, if the grids are full (as we are currently being told) and you have to withdraw from an event then you should get 100% back, if they are short as a result of you withdrawing then I can understand not returning the money, but not returning it when full will effectively mean they are making profit from not providing the very service that the monies were handed over for in the 1st place.
Edited by taffyracer on Friday 1st February 23:20
I agree in part, I know it's a business and accept that the EERC needs to look at it commercially which is why I have paid my money, but if the grids are full (as we are being told) and a reserve steps in and takes your place and pays once again the entry fee due to you have to miss through no fault of your own, then I can't see any commercial reason not to offer a full refund (less an admin charge), making profit is perfectly acceptable but making profit from not providing the service that the payment was made for in the 1st place is IMO not correct, but that's the situation and I accept it and i'm looking forward to a good season, should be a belter
Edited by taffyracer on Saturday 2nd February 09:30
Not 100% sure if this is really the fault of EERC but they must be pleased with the Class 1 & 2 entries.
Dont see any point in there being a class 3 and 4 with only a handfull of cars. The only decent race we had last year was at Castle Combe with Andre de Cruze in the Lamp BMW, even he is moving to Class 2 in a GTR! Mark Smith always give a good battle but need more than jut one car!
PS1 does not realy suit us as they are 50 minute racing, is it really worth all that travel to have two races where you get just 20 minutes in the car each race?
Dutch Super Car is great but again to far to travel?
Really disapointing
Dont see any point in there being a class 3 and 4 with only a handfull of cars. The only decent race we had last year was at Castle Combe with Andre de Cruze in the Lamp BMW, even he is moving to Class 2 in a GTR! Mark Smith always give a good battle but need more than jut one car!
PS1 does not realy suit us as they are 50 minute racing, is it really worth all that travel to have two races where you get just 20 minutes in the car each race?
Dutch Super Car is great but again to far to travel?
Really disapointing
The fault lies with evolution and the control of it. A difficult balance in class system.
You/we can carry on chasing a thousand different wims and desires to make our cars faster or we can get one solid direction and limit. The only solid direction of Britcar with all due respect to whats been achieved, is towards the fastest sexiest cars possible in the longest races. Consequentially people get left behind and look elswhere to use thier machines.
Typically people do the slightly slower classes because they want to be involved but can't afford/justify the faster ones and as we all know thats still a significant investment. If no control is put over the faster classes the costs of the slower ones get dragged up and beyond the reach or interest of the people who could just about make it happen. Pure evolution and a reflection of just how much this series costs.
One other significant factor is the issue of finding a second driver. Not many people can afford to subsidise or even pay for the second seat, specially not when your chances of an outright race win are about as likely as me racing at Le Mans for Audi this year!!
You/we can carry on chasing a thousand different wims and desires to make our cars faster or we can get one solid direction and limit. The only solid direction of Britcar with all due respect to whats been achieved, is towards the fastest sexiest cars possible in the longest races. Consequentially people get left behind and look elswhere to use thier machines.
Typically people do the slightly slower classes because they want to be involved but can't afford/justify the faster ones and as we all know thats still a significant investment. If no control is put over the faster classes the costs of the slower ones get dragged up and beyond the reach or interest of the people who could just about make it happen. Pure evolution and a reflection of just how much this series costs.
One other significant factor is the issue of finding a second driver. Not many people can afford to subsidise or even pay for the second seat, specially not when your chances of an outright race win are about as likely as me racing at Le Mans for Audi this year!!
Simon Mason said:
The fault lies with evolution and the control of it. A difficult balance in class system.
You/we can carry on chasing a thousand different wims and desires to make our cars faster or we can get one solid direction and limit. The only solid direction of Britcar with all due respect to whats been achieved, is towards the fastest sexiest cars possible in the longest races. Consequentially people get left behind and look elswhere to use thier machines.
Typically people do the slightly slower classes because they want to be involved but can't afford/justify the faster ones and as we all know thats still a significant investment. If no control is put over the faster classes the costs of the slower ones get dragged up and beyond the reach or interest of the people who could just about make it happen. Pure evolution and a reflection of just how much this series costs.
One other significant factor is the issue of finding a second driver. Not many people can afford to subsidise or even pay for the second seat, specially not when your chances of an outright race win are about as likely as me racing at Le Mans for Audi this year!!
Well said...You/we can carry on chasing a thousand different wims and desires to make our cars faster or we can get one solid direction and limit. The only solid direction of Britcar with all due respect to whats been achieved, is towards the fastest sexiest cars possible in the longest races. Consequentially people get left behind and look elswhere to use thier machines.
Typically people do the slightly slower classes because they want to be involved but can't afford/justify the faster ones and as we all know thats still a significant investment. If no control is put over the faster classes the costs of the slower ones get dragged up and beyond the reach or interest of the people who could just about make it happen. Pure evolution and a reflection of just how much this series costs.
One other significant factor is the issue of finding a second driver. Not many people can afford to subsidise or even pay for the second seat, specially not when your chances of an outright race win are about as likely as me racing at Le Mans for Audi this year!!
the cost of competing only ever goes upwards... the oppotunity for a low-budget entry taking a win is dissapearing fast....
The subject of Britcar and its evolution is interesting.
2004 Coming from Marcos,BMWS and Hondas
to
2005 Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2006 Falcon.Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2007 Aston,Mosler,BMWV8,Falcon.Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2008 Viper,Ascari,F430,Corvette,Aston,Jaguar,Mosler,BMWV8,Falcon.Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2009 (Britcar Gts) and (Britcar PRODUCTIONS1)seperate races.
2004 Coming from Marcos,BMWS and Hondas
to
2005 Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2006 Falcon.Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2007 Aston,Mosler,BMWV8,Falcon.Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2008 Viper,Ascari,F430,Corvette,Aston,Jaguar,Mosler,BMWV8,Falcon.Porsche,Marcos,Merc and Honda & MG
to
2009 (Britcar Gts) and (Britcar PRODUCTIONS1)seperate races.
As I have said in a thread that I have just started there is fast developing a gap in the market for a more sensibly priced alternative to what Britcar appears to be morfing into....a playground for the city boys and others in their supercars.
There may be a salutory lesson to be learned in that such people do not, by their very nature, have much loyalty to a promoter or anyone but themselves in reality, and will head off to other pastures as and when it suits their lifestyles, interests and business needs.
I am, as may be perceived, a bit miffed by the increase in entry fees with no added value offered whatsoever, combined with such poor numbers in classes 3 and 4 and costly work in progress on my car in the anticipation of............scoring half points in either class.
regards, Don.
There may be a salutory lesson to be learned in that such people do not, by their very nature, have much loyalty to a promoter or anyone but themselves in reality, and will head off to other pastures as and when it suits their lifestyles, interests and business needs.
I am, as may be perceived, a bit miffed by the increase in entry fees with no added value offered whatsoever, combined with such poor numbers in classes 3 and 4 and costly work in progress on my car in the anticipation of............scoring half points in either class.
regards, Don.
Kalmar, if you look at the new regs you will see the half pionts issue has been delt with, and as for prices, you cannot expect anything else than increases, but you have forgotten the hospitality,scutineers,television and the added service that Britcar gives over other Championships.
VdeV entry fees are £2500.00 plus vat for 3 hours, Britcar is £1795.00 at Spa for 4hours including testing/qualifying and race.
VdeV entry fees are £2500.00 plus vat for 3 hours, Britcar is £1795.00 at Spa for 4hours including testing/qualifying and race.
I cannot say hospitality or TV coverage does much for me. The circuits have adequate canteen facilities if you dont want to self cater, and certainly in my team we have not got time to sit with our shades on posing in a hospitality suite.....TV... well how much do you want to pay for a slot in the graveyard hours on cable?
Scrutineering is worthy of consideration, but JT has not done a bad job with his light application of simple rules in the past.
Regards, Don.
Scrutineering is worthy of consideration, but JT has not done a bad job with his light application of simple rules in the past.
Regards, Don.
Also, James was courteous this morning in calling me and explaing many things from his point of view.
Most important amongst them for me was the fact that there is now some resolution to full point scoring in classes 2 & 3 if there are sufficient registrations before the season starts.....mind you I might be a bit upset if I was running for the championship in Classes 1 and 2 where those in those 'lower' classes were scoring full champ. points if only a couple of them turn up.
Don.
Most important amongst them for me was the fact that there is now some resolution to full point scoring in classes 2 & 3 if there are sufficient registrations before the season starts.....mind you I might be a bit upset if I was running for the championship in Classes 1 and 2 where those in those 'lower' classes were scoring full champ. points if only a couple of them turn up.
Don.
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