An introduction from me, and a guide for your DL-1s
Discussion
Hi all! Some of you have met me before but for those who haven't, my name is Nick Simpson and I shall be running the data loggers in the race series this year. I'm a big fan of all things TVR and myself drive a modified Chim 450, but hope to join some of you in the series in a few years when I have both the cash and a car. As well as running the loggers, I'll help out with analysing the data anywhere I'm needed.
To get everyone started, I've written a short guide to help out those of you who are new to the DL-1 and give some tips on how to go about setting it up and getting the necessary numbers you need before racing. I've also stuck in a couple of analysis tips for you to get started, but if anyone wants to know more about adding sensors/analysing further or whatever, please email me through my Pistonheads account and I'll get back to you asap.
Here are the links to the guide, the first link is the whole thing as one pdf, the next two are the same thing but split into setup and analysis parts in case you only need one bit (though I recommend giving it all a read anyway at least once):
Complete: http://thenick.110mb.com/DL1%20Guide%20Complete.pd...
Setup: http://thenick.110mb.com/Guide%20part%201.pdf
Analysis: http://thenick.110mb.com/Guide%20Part%202.pdf
There may well be the odd mistake in there somewhere as I've been a bit pressed for time lately, but if you see anything missing or would like anything adding then again drop me a mail and I'll sort it out.
Anyway thanks for reading, I'm sure I'll bump into all of you sooner or later!
Nick
P.S If you can't open the guide files, you'll need to download Adobe Acrobat Reader from www.adobe.com
To get everyone started, I've written a short guide to help out those of you who are new to the DL-1 and give some tips on how to go about setting it up and getting the necessary numbers you need before racing. I've also stuck in a couple of analysis tips for you to get started, but if anyone wants to know more about adding sensors/analysing further or whatever, please email me through my Pistonheads account and I'll get back to you asap.
Here are the links to the guide, the first link is the whole thing as one pdf, the next two are the same thing but split into setup and analysis parts in case you only need one bit (though I recommend giving it all a read anyway at least once):
Complete: http://thenick.110mb.com/DL1%20Guide%20Complete.pd...
Setup: http://thenick.110mb.com/Guide%20part%201.pdf
Analysis: http://thenick.110mb.com/Guide%20Part%202.pdf
There may well be the odd mistake in there somewhere as I've been a bit pressed for time lately, but if you see anything missing or would like anything adding then again drop me a mail and I'll sort it out.
Anyway thanks for reading, I'm sure I'll bump into all of you sooner or later!
Nick
P.S If you can't open the guide files, you'll need to download Adobe Acrobat Reader from www.adobe.com
Edited by thenick on Friday 15th February 01:52
Nice one matey...just ordered mine and will be testing it at Snett next week!
can you email me your mobile? trackdays@tvrcc.com ta
Andy
(I'll only blagg it from Graham if you don't
)
can you email me your mobile? trackdays@tvrcc.com ta
Andy
(I'll only blagg it from Graham if you don't
)How much are these things - do you have to have one and pay for it? - Bad enough having to buy Transponders now a days!
I have just scanned through most of this document and all I can, say is what a load of pointless geeky computer cobblers, that has nothing to do with driving your nuts off and actually racing (might be better for the Trackday fans that like analysing this type of stuff but not actually racing!).
If you are not going fast enough, a few tips, brake later, accelerate earlier, get weight out of the car or more power, spend hard earned on tyres, suspension and brakes and try harder. If you are miles off what you feel the car is capable of then looking at the stuff will not help (it is all in the Head (Going Fast) lap times and being able to race really close and overtake others).
I work in PC Oil Field Software so have to look at all this type of stuff day in day out. But it is just to pay the bills! Why anyone would want to look at there optimal line on a track via GPS and Google Maps is beyond me.
And as if you are going to do all that setup stuff before each race! Come on - that has nothing to do with racing. I have enough to do some days (if you are having a problem that needs fixing, the last thing you are going to do is mess about with this stuff).
And as for logging power etc, this is all easily fiddled with via the numbers entered during the setup for your cars CdA and Rolling resistance (put in lower or higher numbers than required to show you have lower power than you actually do - Easy).
Display G-Force Vectors - Give me a break............
This is the type of junk that the Japs like in their Road / Drift GTR / Skylines toys.
Is this a must for the TVR Championship?
If it is and it costs it will be just one more reason the Grids are still so small.
Don't think I am being negative (I probably am, but if I had to have this stuff in the series I currently run in and pay for it) I'd be off to another series pronto.
The people running the series needs very SIMPLE guidelines on rules for each class, tyre sizes, weight air restrictor sizes etc.
I have just scanned through most of this document and all I can, say is what a load of pointless geeky computer cobblers, that has nothing to do with driving your nuts off and actually racing (might be better for the Trackday fans that like analysing this type of stuff but not actually racing!).
If you are not going fast enough, a few tips, brake later, accelerate earlier, get weight out of the car or more power, spend hard earned on tyres, suspension and brakes and try harder. If you are miles off what you feel the car is capable of then looking at the stuff will not help (it is all in the Head (Going Fast) lap times and being able to race really close and overtake others).
I work in PC Oil Field Software so have to look at all this type of stuff day in day out. But it is just to pay the bills! Why anyone would want to look at there optimal line on a track via GPS and Google Maps is beyond me.
And as if you are going to do all that setup stuff before each race! Come on - that has nothing to do with racing. I have enough to do some days (if you are having a problem that needs fixing, the last thing you are going to do is mess about with this stuff).
And as for logging power etc, this is all easily fiddled with via the numbers entered during the setup for your cars CdA and Rolling resistance (put in lower or higher numbers than required to show you have lower power than you actually do - Easy).
Display G-Force Vectors - Give me a break............
This is the type of junk that the Japs like in their Road / Drift GTR / Skylines toys.
Is this a must for the TVR Championship?
If it is and it costs it will be just one more reason the Grids are still so small.
Don't think I am being negative (I probably am, but if I had to have this stuff in the series I currently run in and pay for it) I'd be off to another series pronto.
The people running the series needs very SIMPLE guidelines on rules for each class, tyre sizes, weight air restrictor sizes etc.
Edited by jellison on Wednesday 16th April 10:13
You don't need it if you run Class A or want to be un-classed.
There are so many variations of car's it hard to say you have to have x y z to be in such a class, unless you want 10 classes.
This way anyone one can compete in any car any spec. and you will be class due to you power to weight ratio.
you don't have too look at the stuff on a PC in you don't want to, just put it in the car, and hand over the Data-card at the end of the race.
you can't change you CDa as your not allowed access to the data until after its been copied by Mark.
Also £500 is not much compared to the £5000-7000 minimum your need to compete for a season.
There are so many variations of car's it hard to say you have to have x y z to be in such a class, unless you want 10 classes.
This way anyone one can compete in any car any spec. and you will be class due to you power to weight ratio.
you don't have too look at the stuff on a PC in you don't want to, just put it in the car, and hand over the Data-card at the end of the race.
you can't change you CDa as your not allowed access to the data until after its been copied by Mark.
Also £500 is not much compared to the £5000-7000 minimum your need to compete for a season.
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
You don't need it if you run Class A or want to be un-classed.
There are so many variations of car's it hard to say you have to have x y z to be in such a class, unless you want 10 classes.
This way anyone one can compete in any car any spec. and you will be class due to you power to weight ratio.
you don't have too look at the stuff on a PC in you don't want to, just put it in the car, and hand over the Data-card at the end of the race.
you can't change you CDa as your not allowed access to the data until after its been copied by Mark.
Also £500 is not much compared to the £5000-7000 minimum your need to compete for a season.
£500 is not much - that is just plan cobblers. I can get a 1 hour at SPA for that (400 quid and the extra 100 would be cover most of the petrol for the Towcar / Motorhome to get it there), or 2.5 or more Race entries in the std series!There are so many variations of car's it hard to say you have to have x y z to be in such a class, unless you want 10 classes.
This way anyone one can compete in any car any spec. and you will be class due to you power to weight ratio.
you don't have too look at the stuff on a PC in you don't want to, just put it in the car, and hand over the Data-card at the end of the race.
you can't change you CDa as your not allowed access to the data until after its been copied by Mark.
Also £500 is not much compared to the £5000-7000 minimum your need to compete for a season.
I tell you this rubbish will really hurt the series that is already low on numbers and WILL have a significant effect on whether a car woul be entered or not.
If I run my Griff (when built) it would most likely be in the top B/A area but no way would I get one of these things (christ the MST timers are only 220 quid), I'd just run in the top class and have some fun.
If this toy was incorporated in alot of the club events I have raced in or might consider racing in, I tell you the field would be decimated. Alot of people in club racing do not turn out for the whole season and many just for the odd race, if this was imposed then you could bet alot of these people would just go else where.
This is ABSOLUTELY STUPID for Club Level Motorsport AND Especially when you are trying to get the numbers up.
The people running the series need a very simple policed system in place.
i.e. AJPV8 full race or Similar power cars and a simply weigh the cars at each race (even this is stupid in club level sport as if they have time at scrutineering).
Slicks or non slicks (i.e. Yokos or Toyos). Two classes woul do it slick and non slicks.
It has to be simple and not cost anything or the Tuscan (daft name) series will never get the grid it needs (you have to average 16 cars at least when averaged across all races fo rthe season). Not even close so far.
jellison said:
£500 is not much - that is just plan cobblers. I can get a 1 hour at SPA for that (400 quid and the extra 100 would be cover most of the petrol for the Towcar / Motorhome to get it there), or 2.5 or more Race entries in the std series!
I tell you this rubbish will really hurt the series that is already low on numbers and WILL have a significant effect on whether a car woul be entered or not.
If I run my Griff (when built) it would most likely be in the top B/A area but no way would I get one of these things (christ the MST timers are only 220 quid), I'd just run in the top class and have some fun.
If this toy was incorporated in alot of the club events I have raced in or might consider racing in, I tell you the field would be decimated. Alot of people in club racing do not turn out for the whole season and many just for the odd race, if this was imposed then you could bet alot of these people would just go else where.
This is ABSOLUTELY STUPID for Club Level Motorsport AND Especially when you are trying to get the numbers up.
The people running the series need a very simple policed system in place.
i.e. AJPV8 full race or Similar power cars and a simply weigh the cars at each race (even this is stupid in club level sport as if they have time at scrutineering).
Slicks or non slicks (i.e. Yokos or Toyos). Two classes woul do it slick and non slicks.
It has to be simple and not cost anything or the Tuscan (daft name) series will never get the grid it needs (you have to average 16 cars at least when averaged across all races fo rthe season). Not even close so far.
Jon - you are speaking tosh mate.I tell you this rubbish will really hurt the series that is already low on numbers and WILL have a significant effect on whether a car woul be entered or not.
If I run my Griff (when built) it would most likely be in the top B/A area but no way would I get one of these things (christ the MST timers are only 220 quid), I'd just run in the top class and have some fun.
If this toy was incorporated in alot of the club events I have raced in or might consider racing in, I tell you the field would be decimated. Alot of people in club racing do not turn out for the whole season and many just for the odd race, if this was imposed then you could bet alot of these people would just go else where.
This is ABSOLUTELY STUPID for Club Level Motorsport AND Especially when you are trying to get the numbers up.
The people running the series need a very simple policed system in place.
i.e. AJPV8 full race or Similar power cars and a simply weigh the cars at each race (even this is stupid in club level sport as if they have time at scrutineering).
Slicks or non slicks (i.e. Yokos or Toyos). Two classes woul do it slick and non slicks.
It has to be simple and not cost anything or the Tuscan (daft name) series will never get the grid it needs (you have to average 16 cars at least when averaged across all races fo rthe season). Not even close so far.
1) You are not forced to have a logger. Its your choice. If you want to run in class B you need one. Or run in A without. Otherwise go spend your money going to Spa
2) The championship has more existing and potential entrants than it has had for many years
3) People pay the £500 for the logger because they want a sensible solution to policing the class limits. The class rules are very very simple - you need to comply with a maximum power to weight. What are the alternatives? Drag the cars off to a rolling road? Strip engines? Dyno engines? Britcar and Dutchsupercar have a similar issue - lots of types of car and PTW limits -and adopted the same method.
You said group together cars of similar power but conveniently gloss over how you acheive that?
4) The name is the DUNLOP TVR EUROPEAN CHALLENGE 2008
5) 15 cars for the first race with many drivers' cars not yet ready seems pretty close to a 16 average to me. So far.
If you don't want to race in the series then no problem, but why do you want to criticise it in this fashion?
I suspect the only thing likely to keep people from joining the Challenge is seeing your ramblings Jellyhead telling everyone how bad this is and how bad that is. Fact is we have more people interested in the Challenge than in the recent poor years, and we all admit they had been very poor but are now looking very strong again! woohoo!! . Now you have 3 distinct policed classes to play in. If you don't like it please continue racing elsewhere.
edited to remove teh swearing and other bad language , sorry people. Made me angry.
edited to remove teh swearing and other bad language , sorry people. Made me angry.
Andy - I am just telling you how it can all unfold.
Apologies if I got some of it wrong.
If I could ever get my car done I'd be out for at least the odd race.
I even asked John Reid last year or 06 (not sure) if I could come out in one of the TR's (almost TVR!) to help with the grids and the car at that time (not now would have been mid grid), he was keen and said that was fine, but I just never got round to it or had car / cash flow issues (can't remember) and it never happened.
Having been there with Triumph (TR Register) racing and seen that spiral down until the series died and people drifted of to other series.
I hope more come out for you to race and beat (you have clearly put alot into your car an be great to race a fair few similar cars), but TVR's are a reasonably expensive series (and very at our level).
What I am saying is you can have loads of people enter a championship but never see half of them actually out and if so some just do the odd one.
Just need to chivy them ones along that are sitting on the fence, to get out there (not being negative as the grids were not great last year). Personally I think double headers often kill series (club series - it is not the Semi work series it was remember). As by the time you have entered two races and fuelled and tyres the thing and gotten there you can be into 600+ quid just for an event. I think they shoul have 30 min race but just the one at only 1/3 more cash than for the 1 sprint race.
As for Jules - until you have raced (at all) or alot I'll just IGNORE your comments on Racing. Best get back to monkeying about with all the trackday stuff.
Apologies if I got some of it wrong.
If I could ever get my car done I'd be out for at least the odd race.
I even asked John Reid last year or 06 (not sure) if I could come out in one of the TR's (almost TVR!) to help with the grids and the car at that time (not now would have been mid grid), he was keen and said that was fine, but I just never got round to it or had car / cash flow issues (can't remember) and it never happened.
Having been there with Triumph (TR Register) racing and seen that spiral down until the series died and people drifted of to other series.
I hope more come out for you to race and beat (you have clearly put alot into your car an be great to race a fair few similar cars), but TVR's are a reasonably expensive series (and very at our level).
What I am saying is you can have loads of people enter a championship but never see half of them actually out and if so some just do the odd one.
Just need to chivy them ones along that are sitting on the fence, to get out there (not being negative as the grids were not great last year). Personally I think double headers often kill series (club series - it is not the Semi work series it was remember). As by the time you have entered two races and fuelled and tyres the thing and gotten there you can be into 600+ quid just for an event. I think they shoul have 30 min race but just the one at only 1/3 more cash than for the 1 sprint race.
As for Jules - until you have raced (at all) or alot I'll just IGNORE your comments on Racing. Best get back to monkeying about with all the trackday stuff.
gaffaw gaffaw chortle chortle.
I'm not a racing driver (for sure) but you don't have to be a racing driver to see how well the rules are being accepted by the people currently involved in the Challenge.
There's a set of rules in place now which neatly side-step all the problems of the recent couple of years. The last thing the Challenge needs now is the apple cart upsetting - everyone and everything in teh Challenge is becoming a harmonious working enjoyable group.
You should have been at Cadwell (but you weren't), you'd have seen a lot of people very happy with the way the Challenge is now set up (and credit to everyone who was involved in refining the Class structures to make that possible). I'm not aware at the moment of anyone (apart from yourself) who has a bad word to say about the way the racing is organised (and as a constructor I'm as much involved with that as the drivers .. if I give my driver an illegal car that's my fault not his).
Though of course you'll be ignoring this won't you ?
I'm not a racing driver (for sure) but you don't have to be a racing driver to see how well the rules are being accepted by the people currently involved in the Challenge.
There's a set of rules in place now which neatly side-step all the problems of the recent couple of years. The last thing the Challenge needs now is the apple cart upsetting - everyone and everything in teh Challenge is becoming a harmonious working enjoyable group.
You should have been at Cadwell (but you weren't), you'd have seen a lot of people very happy with the way the Challenge is now set up (and credit to everyone who was involved in refining the Class structures to make that possible). I'm not aware at the moment of anyone (apart from yourself) who has a bad word to say about the way the racing is organised (and as a constructor I'm as much involved with that as the drivers .. if I give my driver an illegal car that's my fault not his).
Though of course you'll be ignoring this won't you ?
Hmm where to start with this one.
First off, in the majority of cases I've found that the most noise regarding loggers has come from people who tend to have very powerful engines. Looking at your car history this seems to correlate quite well. The only other people who constantly express their opinion on loggers seem to be those who are not racing in the series, you qualify perfectly on that one Jelly. When many people are working really hard to build the series, spending hard earned getting their cars out and we see grid numbers improving consistently the last thing we need is another pointless discussion and a kick in the nutz. Get your car ready, decide if you want to race by the rules, choose an appropriate series for you and race. Please don't keep knocking the Dunlop TVR series, it does no-one any good at all. I won't go into the details of why I think loggers are great value, I've said it before so many times I'm bored and tired cos the same old faces can't be bothered to read it.
Most of the drivers wanted double header rounds, me included. You are VERY out of touch with the series. Double header format lowers costs, simple. We have less weekends away so transportation costs are lower, time off from work is lower, track time is slightly lower, everything reduces cost.
ceejay
First off, in the majority of cases I've found that the most noise regarding loggers has come from people who tend to have very powerful engines. Looking at your car history this seems to correlate quite well. The only other people who constantly express their opinion on loggers seem to be those who are not racing in the series, you qualify perfectly on that one Jelly. When many people are working really hard to build the series, spending hard earned getting their cars out and we see grid numbers improving consistently the last thing we need is another pointless discussion and a kick in the nutz. Get your car ready, decide if you want to race by the rules, choose an appropriate series for you and race. Please don't keep knocking the Dunlop TVR series, it does no-one any good at all. I won't go into the details of why I think loggers are great value, I've said it before so many times I'm bored and tired cos the same old faces can't be bothered to read it.
Most of the drivers wanted double header rounds, me included. You are VERY out of touch with the series. Double header format lowers costs, simple. We have less weekends away so transportation costs are lower, time off from work is lower, track time is slightly lower, everything reduces cost.
ceejay
Jon - we all agree that numbers in the past have been poor, but the series has attracted a host of new drivers for this year. Some of them are struggling to get their cars finished but despite this the first race had a grid of 15 cars. An average of at least 20 cars is easily achievable.
As for double headers - that is what everybody wanted and that is what has been provided. Personally I prefer my race meetings to be 2 races over a 2 day weekend - it has a better social side to it and it gives you an opportunity to make repairs if necessary. The entry fee is not a large percentage of the total cost of racing when you run a Tuscan.
The anniversary race aside I didn't race in the series last year and I am not doing it this year either. I am developing my car as a GT racer and it would be something of a sledgehammer to crack a nut in the TVR series. That's not to say we might not use a TVR race as a test if the timing worked, but its not the primary plan.
The bottom line is that the series is enjoying something of a revival, albeit in somewhat different form. It can't afford to be complacent, but 2008 looks like being the best year for some time.
As for double headers - that is what everybody wanted and that is what has been provided. Personally I prefer my race meetings to be 2 races over a 2 day weekend - it has a better social side to it and it gives you an opportunity to make repairs if necessary. The entry fee is not a large percentage of the total cost of racing when you run a Tuscan.
The anniversary race aside I didn't race in the series last year and I am not doing it this year either. I am developing my car as a GT racer and it would be something of a sledgehammer to crack a nut in the TVR series. That's not to say we might not use a TVR race as a test if the timing worked, but its not the primary plan.
The bottom line is that the series is enjoying something of a revival, albeit in somewhat different form. It can't afford to be complacent, but 2008 looks like being the best year for some time.
I for one, am very happy with the Series.
Growing grids of a wide variety of well prepared TVRs, split into 3 easily policed catogories. A great crowd and good racing with zero muppetry and contact.
The Grid at CP looked fantastic and was commented on by several in other series.
sorry Jon. But thats how I see it with my HUGE racing experience
Andy
Also I prefer double headers for the reasons AndyH gave. All the way to CP for one race was a bind, would still have done it again tho!
Growing grids of a wide variety of well prepared TVRs, split into 3 easily policed catogories. A great crowd and good racing with zero muppetry and contact.
The Grid at CP looked fantastic and was commented on by several in other series.
sorry Jon. But thats how I see it with my HUGE racing experience
Andy
Also I prefer double headers for the reasons AndyH gave. All the way to CP for one race was a bind, would still have done it again tho!
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