JIM CLARK

[hot metal]

The greatest ever ,period. Discuss? ,no topic closed

[aeropilot]

Yes, end of discussion.

[Freddie von Rost]

No. In the top 10 though.

[matt3001]

Top 3 with Senna and Villeneuve

[Freddie von Rost]

matt3001 said:

Top 3 with Senna and Villeneuve

And your criteria for this?

[matt3001]

Pure natural ability

[Freddie von Rost]

matt3001 said:

Pure natural ability

By that measure:

Nuvolari,
Fangio,
Stewart,
Senna,
Schumacher,
Clark,
G Hill.

[Eric Mc]

And much as I liked Graham Hill He was never a truly gifted driver - but a hard and meticulous grafter with a strong character.

[shoestring7]

Freddie von Rost said:

matt3001 said:

Pure natural ability

By that measure:

Nuvolari,
Fangio,
Stewart,
Senna,
Schumacher,
Clark,
G Hill.

+Rosemeyer; straight from bikes to winning in a 500bhp, skinny tyred widow-maker.

SS7
PS G. Hill; a self made champion, not natural, shirley?

[HiRich]

matt3001 said:

Pure natural ability

Clark may not have been the greatest, he certainly wasn't the most complete driver. But there's a strong argument for classing him the most naturally gifted person to ever sit behind the wheel.

[matt3001]

That's the point I was making, not greatest as such just the most naturally able along with Ayrton and Gilles IMO

[dxb335d]

Freddie von Rost said:

matt3001 said:

Pure natural ability

By that measure:

Nuvolari,
Fangio,
Stewart,
Senna,
Schumacher,
Clark,
G Hill.

Not forgetting Stefan Bellof

[Eric Mc]

Bellof was taken before he really had a chance to prove himself. Perhaps he was just TOO brave.

[shoestring7]

Eric Mc said:

And much as I liked Graham Hill He was never a truly gifted driver - but a hard and meticulous grafter with a strong character.

Agreed, he shouldn't be on this list.

However the list he should be on is that of F1 champions who have won at both Le Mans and the Indianpolis 500. Its a short list though!

SS7

[Freddie von Rost]

Triple Crown - LM, Indy 500 and Monaco. Winners include:

1. Graham Hill,
2.......

FvR

Just a quick point about G Hill. He also gave Lotus the World Championship, 1967?, after Jim Clarks's demise.

[Rocky Balboa]

No, Ayrton Senna is.

Mods you may close the thread!

Actually it might be Schumacher? But you said the 'greatest', not the 'greatest cheat'

[superkartracer]

It's Simon Nor-arse in it

[hot metal]

Yeh yeh the list goes on ,still Clark though

[amr2]

I think you will find that Graham Hill won the Championship in 1968, not 1967.

'67 was Denny Hulmes year, in the Brabham Repco.

I do note that you say '...after the demise of JC' which was obviously 1968!

Perhaps just a slip of the finger rather than a brain slip!!!!


Just getting the facts straight.


Andrew

[Eric Mc]

Hill was a dogged and technical driver - and also almost singlehandedly pulled Lotus through the trauma of 1968 (where they also lost Mike Spence in practice for the Indy 500). That was where his atributes lay. He was not the most skilfull driver out there - but sometimes other factors can be more important in motor racing.

I would never rate him highly when it comes to pure track ability but I would when it came to determination and having a "winning" atitude.

On the other hand, some of the greatest "pure" drivers (G Villeneuve, S Belloff) were probably very flawed when it came to track craft and race logic and may never have won a championship - if they'd lived. I am pretty sure their do or die approach to racing contributed to their deaths - and their now almost legendary status.