Wing endplate/vapour trails

[entropy]

What caused them?

Wasn't it something to do with humidity because IIRC it occured before/after rain.

I know we don't see them these days because cars are much more aero efficient now.

[GreenV8S]

This is caused by the low pressure zone in the middle of the tip vortex. As the pressure drops so does the temperature, and when the temperatures drops to the dew point the water condenses into droplets that are visible as vapour trails.

[Asterix]

The lack of vapour trails and huge sparks coming off the undertrays has seriously reduced the viewing pleasure of F1

Maybe they could bring in smoke trails like the Red Arrows. As they are driving around, a bloke on the pit wall could remotely operate them, perhaps in country colours or something.

Could be the opposite of the performace boost you get in A1 GP - sort of a patriotic smokescreen to hamper the fella trying to overtake.

[zac510]

I was just watching this video on the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7512732.stm) and it shows a few fighter jets on which the designers intentionally set up vortices over the top edge of the wing. The extend from the leading edge of the wing just adjacent to the cockpit (they're pretty hard to miss) . They only occur when the plane is in a 'nose up' position relative to its direction of travel. I believe it is something to do with keeping the air attached to the top of the wing when the plane is on that angle.

[Eric Mc]

All wings produce a vortex off the wing tip. They occur when the high pressure air spills off the top of the wing and meets the low pressure air coming from below. This, of course, refers to the situations on racing cars - as the wings are upside down compared to an aircraft.
Votices sometimes produce condensation - depending on humidity levels and become visible. These vortices also create drag so designers are always fighting to minimise them. That is why many modern airliner and biz jet designs incorporate "finlets" on the wingtips which help reduce vortex drag. F1 designers also devote a lot of time in minimising the drag from these vortices and they are no much less prominent than they were back in the 1980s.

[evenflow]

Hoping that they'll make a re-appearance next year after all the winglets and aerobits are banned.

[clonmult]

evenflow said:

Hoping that they'll make a re-appearance next year after all the winglets and aerobits are banned.

And all those winglets and aerobits just make the cars look ugly, totally spoil the lines.

[evenflow]

clonmult said:

evenflow said:

Hoping that they'll make a re-appearance next year after all the winglets and aerobits are banned.

And all those winglets and aerobits just make the cars look ugly, totally spoil the lines.

Indeed they do. I remember seeing the first "raised nose" F1 car (from memory a Benetton?) and thinking how awful it looked. Downhill from there I think.

[Eric Mc]

The first raised nose car was the 1990 Tyrrell, I think. However, its front wings were still only attached to either side of the nose cone and did not continue underneath the nose. The Bennetton 192 was the first with the "modern" full span front wing and raised nose combination.

[entropy]

evenflow said:

Hoping that they'll make a re-appearance next year after all the winglets and aerobits are banned.

Saw vapour trail from Indycar race at St Petersburg this year, that was a surprise given how sophisticated aero is in this day and age. And those cars are ugly.

[Jon C]

Hockenheim is notable as being one of the few race tracks where Top Fuel Dragsters produce vapour trails off the rear wings. Close proxinity of the trees, I am informed.

[Eric Mc]

The modern Hockenheim?

[clonmult]

evenflow said:

clonmult said:

evenflow said:

Hoping that they'll make a re-appearance next year after all the winglets and aerobits are banned.

And all those winglets and aerobits just make the cars look ugly, totally spoil the lines.

Indeed they do. I remember seeing the first "raised nose" F1 car (from memory a Benetton?) and thinking how awful it looked. Downhill from there I think.

The Raised nose Benetton (not sure?) wasn't too bad - personal worst was one of the first McLarens that started sprouting extra wings and aero bits (McLaren, circa 95, when Mansell "drove" it?)

It was more painfully obvious to me a few weeks back when I saw displays of last years Renault and Scheckters Ferrari 312T4. No comparison of the two - the Ferrari was utterly gorgeous, the Renault was a complete abortion.

[evenflow]

Anyone know what the cars may look like next year?

[lazyitus]

My Dad had a BMW 320i back in '86. It had a small black spoiler on the bootlid and on more than one occassion, it produced a vapour trail behind us on motorways/dual carriages. Not a big one but certainly visible.

Edited by lazyitus on Tuesday 22 July 12:08

[OllieC]

Eric Mc said:

The first raised nose car was the 1990 Tyrrell, I think. However, its front wings were still only attached to either side of the nose cone and did not continue underneath the nose. The Bennetton 192 was the first with the "modern" full span front wing and raised nose combination.

the 1990 and 91 tyrrells were one of the nicest looking cars of their era i always thought, very neat and compact designs

mind you i hated the raised wing cars as they looked from 1995 or so onwards

[Jon C]

Eric Mc said:

The modern Hockenheim?

indeed

[egomeister]

evenflow said:

Anyone know what the cars may look like next year?

In some respects this quick and dirty photoshop is not too far from reality:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8361/f2009mocku...

[evenflow]

egomeister said:

evenflow said:

Anyone know what the cars may look like next year?

In some respects this quick and dirty photoshop is not too far from reality:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8361/f2009mocku...

Such a small, high rear wing?

They're also running on slicks aren't they?

[egomeister]

evenflow said:

egomeister said:

evenflow said:

Anyone know what the cars may look like next year?

In some respects this quick and dirty photoshop is not too far from reality:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8361/f2009mocku...

Such a small, high rear wing?

They're also running on slicks aren't they?

It won't be as extreme as that picture, but the rear wing is now narrower and taller, while the front wing is wider so the endplates sit in front of the wheels. They will be on slicks too.

It'll take a few races to get used to them but I think when there are 20 of them on the grid they won't look as bad as on their own!