Alonso complains about Renault ?

[NeilBeforeZod]

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43521

I'm not sure here whether Alonso is claiming that Renault should have stepped up their game, or whether the others are exploiting the rules with regard to engine ancillaries during the engine 'freeze'. Either way, I love Briatore's comment...

Briatore said:

'“The problem is that we’ve stuck to the letter of the current regulations on frozen engines, and we’ve been shafted,” Briatore told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

“Others didn’t do that and are far ahead, while we are suffering."

“It’s not fair.”'

It's not fair? How very mature. These is the piranha club matey, swim or get eaten. I can't believe he really said that, unless it's been taken way out of context.

Are we clear that the issue here lies with Renault missing a significant avenue of development, as I believe, or whether the other teams are stretching the rules to continue development on something supposedly frozen to such research? I feel sure if Renault were right, the FIA would be hitting people (apparently everyone else) with big expensive sticks by now.

Or am I missing something here?

Edited by NeilBeforeZod on Friday 1st August 13:36

[stuttgartmetal]

alonso said:

I was in another team last year and I know how much they improved the engine during the season and how many steps were introduced.

You only really miss something when its gone.

[kevin ritson]

Briatore said:

'“The problem is that we’ve stuck to the letter of the current regulations on frozen engines, and we’ve been shafted,” Briatore told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

“Others didn’t do that and are far ahead, while we are suffering."

“It’s not fair.”'

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same man who was happy to have a fuelling rig tampered with a few years ago?

[Teppic]

kevin ritson said:

Briatore said:

'“The problem is that we’ve stuck to the letter of the current regulations on frozen engines, and we’ve been shafted,” Briatore told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

“Others didn’t do that and are far ahead, while we are suffering."

“It’s not fair.”'

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same man who was happy to have a fuelling rig tampered with a few years ago?

And, as well as the fuel rig, dare I mention Option 13?

Yes, flav. You played VERY fair in 1994...

[rubystone]

There's been a lot of speculation that Renault's engine was not that good in 2006 but this was disguised by Alonso's skill and the quality of the car. That engine was largely unchanged through 2007 and thus to the engine freeze. Add to that the fact that Renault massively scaled down Viry to the exasperation of one of their senior people who was quite open about this fact at a lecture I attended last year.

I think that's the real issue, not that Renault stuck to the letter of the law. Is it any surpise that McLaren have worked on all aspects of their engine from airbox design through to lubrication? It's the details that count. Don't forget that McLaren were the hardest hit by the Berylium ban some years ago and for a season or two the Mercedes/Ilmor engine was one of the worst on the grid.

[bigburd]

seems Honda want him...
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...

[jon-]

bigburd said:

seems Honda want him...
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...

Would be ironic if they dumped button for alonso, can't see them doing it given rubens age

[skwdenyer]

jon- said:

bigburd said:

seems Honda want him...
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...

Would be ironic if they dumped button for alonso, can't see them doing it given rubens age

This can be taken one of two ways; either it is a wake-up call to Jenson & Rubens (and the quoted Brawn comment "because Rubens is doing well at the moment" is especially interesting in that context), or is a surprisingly open play for FA - or both, of course.

It is also interesting that Nick Fry makes big play of "We have developed a very advanced KERS system" (which you'd expect Honda to do well at, of course), whilst there is open talk at the moment of KERS being postoned for a whole year.

I never did understand why Jenson stayed here so long, however - are they paying him that well?

[deadslow]

stuttgartmetal said:

alonso said:

I was in another team last year and I know how much they improved Hamilton's engine during the season and how many steps were introduced.

You don't really miss something when its st.

EFA


his time will come again

[bordseye]

"French stick to rules and dont bend them" - now that is something unusual to moan about.

[Scuffers]

skwdenyer said:

jon- said:

bigburd said:

seems Honda want him...
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/...

Would be ironic if they dumped button for alonso, can't see them doing it given rubens age

This can be taken one of two ways; either it is a wake-up call to Jenson & Rubens (and the quoted Brawn comment "because Rubens is doing well at the moment" is especially interesting in that context), or is a surprisingly open play for FA - or both, of course.

It is also interesting that Nick Fry makes big play of "We have developed a very advanced KERS system" (which you'd expect Honda to do well at, of course), whilst there is open talk at the moment of KERS being postoned for a whole year.

I never did understand why Jenson stayed here so long, however - are they paying him that well?

I can't see Ross putting up with Also's tantums can you?

[rubystone]

As witnessed in Jenson's last quali lap yesterday, I think we'll see him driving the wheels off the car in the remaining races of this season. I bet he's feeling the pressure and equally will want to benefit from the Brawn influence and the clear drawing board regs for next season.

The reason he has stayed so long is simply the contractual position he put himself in after the messy Williams debacle. He'll expect them to reward loyalty with loyalty of course...

[NeilBeforeZod]

Question is, would Alonso be any better than Button if they were to have to choose between them?

Personally I think Alonso would struggle to be significantly better than Button in the Honda. However, given Honda's previous experience in new technology development and the fact that Ross B is with them now, I think it would be a smart move to get his backside in one of their cars for next year. However, would Honda want him, given that he's proved he can be a very destabilising influence in a team.

If I was Jenson, I'd be fighting bloody hard to stay there for the next couple of years. I'd tip Honda for a top 3 constructors position at the end of 2009, but then I am still drunk

Edited by NeilBeforeZod on Sunday 3rd August 12:47

[marcia1]

Have'nt honda already signed both button and rubens for 09 am sure they have.

[deadslow]

marcia1 said:

Have'nt honda already signed both button and rubens for 09 am sure they have.

Wouldn't matter. They would have either one assassinated to get FA. He's different class.

[NeilBeforeZod]

Brawn confirmed on July 19th that neither driver was confirmed for 2009, although they were likely to sign.

Maybe he's just looking to drive down the price of what must be one of the most expensive driver pairings in F1 for 2009. Or will Rubens retire?

[El Guapo]

skwdenyer said:

I never did understand why Jenson stayed here so long, however - are they paying him that well?

I'm sure I remember reading recently that Jenson is the 3rd-highest paid driver in F1 after Kimi and Alonso.

[skwdenyer]

El Guapo said:

skwdenyer said:

I never did understand why Jenson stayed here so long, however - are they paying him that well?

I'm sure I remember reading recently that Jenson is the 3rd-highest paid driver in F1 after Kimi and Alonso.

Indeed, although how much of it goes on interest payments? There was discussion at the time (for instance here) that BAR Honda were going to have to advance JB the money (rumoured to be as high as £11m) for him to buy himself out of his Williams contract.

The Sunday Times last year put JB as being worth £30m, although whether they factored in that £11m in that is unclear. Certainly he's due to receive two HondaJets when they get FAA certified for his air charter business.

Now £30m sounds quite attractive, until you realise that M Schumacher is rumoured to be worth £1bn or so...

Anyhow, the article you mention may have been this one wherein it was suggested that the 2008 earnings league (according to Auto Motor und Sport) goes:

• Alonso $28m
• Raikkonen $22m
• Button $16m
• Massa $12m
• Heidfeld $11 m
• Barrichello $9m
• Webber $7.5m
• Trulli $6.5m
• Hamilton $5m
• Coulthard $5m
• Rosberg $5m
• Fisichella $3m
• Kovalainen $2.5 m
• Kubica $2m
• Glock $2m
• Bourdais $2m
• Piquet $1.5m
• Vettel $1.5m
• Nakajima $1m
• Sutil $1m

The same article also quotes Sports Illustrated's figures for 2007 total earnings, which include estimates for endorsement income. The highlights include:

• Raikkonen $46m
• Alonso $40m

Clearly what we don't know are what the expenses involved are. For instance, how much do managers charge? Lawyers? Is the personal training staff provided by the team or the driver? And so on. But even if you just view these as turnover figures for "A. Driver, inc", they're not a bad start

[Tony 1234]

skwdenyer said:

El Guapo said:

skwdenyer said:

I never did understand why Jenson stayed here so long, however - are they paying him that well?

I'm sure I remember reading recently that Jenson is the 3rd-highest paid driver in F1 after Kimi and Alonso.

Indeed, although how much of it goes on interest payments? There was discussion at the time (for instance here) that BAR Honda were going to have to advance JB the money (rumoured to be as high as £11m) for him to buy himself out of his Williams contract.

The Sunday Times last year put JB as being worth £30m, although whether they factored in that £11m in that is unclear. Certainly he's due to receive two HondaJets when they get FAA certified for his air charter business.

Now £30m sounds quite attractive, until you realise that M Schumacher is rumoured to be worth £1bn or so...

Anyhow, the article you mention may have been this one wherein it was suggested that the 2008 earnings league (according to Auto Motor und Sport) goes:

• Alonso $28m
• Raikkonen $22m
• Button $16m
• Massa $12m
• Heidfeld $11 m
• Barrichello $9m
• Webber $7.5m
• Trulli $6.5m
• Hamilton $5m
• Coulthard $5m
• Rosberg $5m
• Fisichella $3m
• Kovalainen $2.5 m
• Kubica $2m
• Glock $2m
• Bourdais $2m
• Piquet $1.5m
• Vettel $1.5m
• Nakajima $1m
• Sutil $1m

The same article also quotes Sports Illustrated's figures for 2007 total earnings, which include estimates for endorsement income. The highlights include:

• Raikkonen $46m
• Alonso $40m

Clearly what we don't know are what the expenses involved are. For instance, how much do managers charge? Lawyers? Is the personal training staff provided by the team or the driver? And so on. But even if you just view these as turnover figures for "A. Driver, inc", they're not a bad start

Think Lewis is getting ripped off, he could beat Jenson all day long.

Tony

[NeilBeforeZod]

Tony 1234 said:

Think Lewis is getting ripped off, he could beat Jenson all day long.

Tony

True, but you'd have to say that Jense is probably at the height of his earning powers, whereas Lewis has hardly started. If you look in 3 years time, you'd find a rather different story.

Having said that, I'd agree that McLaren are getting a bit of a bargain at the moment. I'd like to know how much Lewis will earn this year including sponsorship endorsements. I'd bet it would be significantly higher than his base salary. At least, if his manager is any good, it should be...