Ron is ashamed to be English...
Discussion
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4051264...
The only thing i would say: Govt., local or national i'm not sure, funded the A43 bypass extension at Silverstone, only to see the GP whipped away, so i think we can safely say that will be the last govt money spent on F1 or motor racing in England.
The only thing i would say: Govt., local or national i'm not sure, funded the A43 bypass extension at Silverstone, only to see the GP whipped away, so i think we can safely say that will be the last govt money spent on F1 or motor racing in England.
heebeegeetee said:
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4051264...
The only thing i would say: Govt., local or national i'm not sure, funded the A43 bypass extension at Silverstone, only to see the GP whipped away, so i think we can safely say that will be the last govt money spent on F1 or motor racing in England.
your not wrong, can you see them paying for the roads required for Donington? (Not that it will ever happen!)The only thing i would say: Govt., local or national i'm not sure, funded the A43 bypass extension at Silverstone, only to see the GP whipped away, so i think we can safely say that will be the last govt money spent on F1 or motor racing in England.
I'd disagree.
If we project forward 10 years, when the economy is riding atop the next bubble, and after there's been no British GP for a while and thousands of motor sports jobs have gone to other countries, it's not hard to envisage the government scrambling desperately to bring F1 back to Britain.
They'll try to tie it in to another Olympics-style urban development boondoggle.
johnfelstead said:
Motorsport jobs in the UK don't rely on there being a British GP, it makes zero difference compared to other factors IMHO.
Surely some jobs do, although of course most don't - owing as you say to other factors.There are other reasons why the likelihood is that motor sports jobs will tend to leave the UK, however, and insofar as a GP is looked upon as a talisman for the sport, I'd maintain that we should expect the government - of either party - to go for symbol over reality, as per normal.
Non-driving, anti-capitalist Ken Livingstone wanted to bring a GP to London, for goodness sake! These politicians' vanity projects (GP, Olympics, Millennium Dome, etc) have unlimited appeal to them, notwithstanding their usual lack of underlying substance.
Much as I'm an F1 nerd, I don't think taxes should pay for what is essentially a sport. Such things should pay for themselves. Mind you, I think the same about opera.
What I resent is that my local taxes are going to pay for a stadium for my local footballs team. Yet this team used to have a perfectly good stadium, but the owner decided to sell it so now I've got to foot the bill for them to play somewhere nice. Mind you, given the type of football they play, the pitch should be good with all that crap on it. So I don't see how I could reasonably support money going towards Donington when we all know that the move is more to do with political infighting than the needs of the sport.
If Eccs wants to charge so much that it makes in uneconomic to run the British GP at Silverstone then there is no justification for my and you taxes going into his pocket.
As pointed out above, the road network around Silverstone has been paid for by you and me and we will not get full value out of it because Eccs has made a decision. It's all very well for Dennis to go on about the moneythat's been put into Valencia but there were loads of empty seats and if Alonso doesn't get his act together then they'll lose money hand over fist in the years to come.
Grand Prix are now seen as some form of status symbol, something for the high up government officials to be seen at and to pose in. That's what Eccs has done to our sport. I feel sure that no money goes into the pockets of corrupt officials in these countries, but one wonders why these politicians are so keen to pay for a sport where they can't get people to watch.
Dennis quotes Valencia but it is a dreadful circuit and the race was the most boring this season so far. And please let it be for the rest of the season as well. We are well rid of such a place.
Eccs taking our sport into places that have no F1 history and no real interest in the sport will mean the death of it unless his comes first.
Despite this season being, Valencia apart, the most exciting for some years, the threat to F1 is still the biggest it has ever been. The absolute disaster of Mosley would have been bad enough on its own yet the cancer eating away at F1 is this concentration on mega bucks. It seems our sport is up for sale to the highest bidder.
If F1 goes to more disinterested countries then there will soon not be enough camera angles to avoid the empty stands.
I still think the best hope for our sport is some form of breakaway series organised by the manfacturers. If they want to sell their cars in this country then they'll need to run a GP or two here. Does Mercedes really want two GPs in Spain?
F1 should go back to its roots and reform as a European series, with a couple of visits to the colonies to show them how its done.
What I resent is that my local taxes are going to pay for a stadium for my local footballs team. Yet this team used to have a perfectly good stadium, but the owner decided to sell it so now I've got to foot the bill for them to play somewhere nice. Mind you, given the type of football they play, the pitch should be good with all that crap on it. So I don't see how I could reasonably support money going towards Donington when we all know that the move is more to do with political infighting than the needs of the sport.
If Eccs wants to charge so much that it makes in uneconomic to run the British GP at Silverstone then there is no justification for my and you taxes going into his pocket.
As pointed out above, the road network around Silverstone has been paid for by you and me and we will not get full value out of it because Eccs has made a decision. It's all very well for Dennis to go on about the moneythat's been put into Valencia but there were loads of empty seats and if Alonso doesn't get his act together then they'll lose money hand over fist in the years to come.
Grand Prix are now seen as some form of status symbol, something for the high up government officials to be seen at and to pose in. That's what Eccs has done to our sport. I feel sure that no money goes into the pockets of corrupt officials in these countries, but one wonders why these politicians are so keen to pay for a sport where they can't get people to watch.
Dennis quotes Valencia but it is a dreadful circuit and the race was the most boring this season so far. And please let it be for the rest of the season as well. We are well rid of such a place.
Eccs taking our sport into places that have no F1 history and no real interest in the sport will mean the death of it unless his comes first.
Despite this season being, Valencia apart, the most exciting for some years, the threat to F1 is still the biggest it has ever been. The absolute disaster of Mosley would have been bad enough on its own yet the cancer eating away at F1 is this concentration on mega bucks. It seems our sport is up for sale to the highest bidder.
If F1 goes to more disinterested countries then there will soon not be enough camera angles to avoid the empty stands.
I still think the best hope for our sport is some form of breakaway series organised by the manfacturers. If they want to sell their cars in this country then they'll need to run a GP or two here. Does Mercedes really want two GPs in Spain?
F1 should go back to its roots and reform as a European series, with a couple of visits to the colonies to show them how its done.
From a crowd point of view Valencia was a boring race. It might have great facilities but as a fan watching from home it was not the best race of the year.
Being at Silverstone this year was AMAZING. Ok the weather wasnt that great but it didnt matter as that made the race even better. The crowd was electric it wasnt a boring race and getting in and out wasnt as bad as everyone had said.
Being at Silverstone this year was AMAZING. Ok the weather wasnt that great but it didnt matter as that made the race even better. The crowd was electric it wasnt a boring race and getting in and out wasnt as bad as everyone had said.
johnfelstead said:
Motorsport jobs in the UK don't rely on there being a British GP, it makes zero difference compared to other factors IMHO.
In the short term, maybe not. But in the longer term I would have to disagree with this.There are many reasons which do affect this, and one of these is actually the basic level of interest in motorsport that the British Grand Prix creates. The UK media pay much more attention to the sport when it is in the UK - that gets people interested in not just the top level but all other levels below it. When those people are interested, and spend money going to races it increases the amount of money available to everyone and therefore the number of people who can be employed in the industry.
On another level, the UK teams have a home Grand Prix to which they can take their staff to see first hand the fruits of their labours. Frank Williams has already said that moving from Silverstone to Donnington will make this harder for the team to get their staff to the British Grand Prix - what if there wasn't one in the UK? Whilst it may not make McLaren, Williams et al move out of the UK it may well affect the choice a new team would make as to where to set up - there surely is a co-incidence in the fact that the two most recent start up British teams are both based near Silverstone - the teams that started as Jordan and Stewart.
Without the top level there would be knock on effects down the tree. If you can't get to the top in one country then would you choose to start there or somewhere that you could?
Whilst there are many areas that I think taxes get spent which I disagree with in terms of benefits to select groups (I would agree with Derek about opera and football from a purely personal viewpoint) as I get older I maybe get more philanthropic and realise that whilst it may not be my bag it is good to provide facilities for people who do enjoy it. As any UK Grand Prix would have to compete with other countries in the world where there is government support then if we wish to stay in the game some of the income the government derives from the sport should be channeled back into providing a world class facility for that sport and all the people who enjoy it.
Am I ashamed to be English though, not overall, but in some areas, maybe.
Having a British star driver in F1 makes far more impact than having a British GP in terms of how that trickles down to the media and spectators, anyone who's been to events over the last couple of years can see how having Lewis in an F1 car has affected the demographic and numbers of families at these events. It's always that way, just look at how Germany's numbers are dropping now Michael isn't involved, it's very noticeable.
The reason F1 teams setup where they do, is down to where the skills are. If you want to build a new F1 team you would be foolish to do it anywhere other than where all the majority of teams are currently based. I firmly believe had Toyota not based themselves in Cologne they would have been further up the grid faster. Getting the staff to a GP for a jolly is last on the list of importance to any F1 team boss, the staff would still work where they do if they didn't have that opportunity, thats not what motivates them.
The vast majority of motorsport jobs have no involvement with F1, if the British GP did go it might even help as more concentration would be put on the events that do generate the jobs. Motorsport has been under promoted for decades and that just might be the kick up the backside needed to change that.
The reason F1 teams setup where they do, is down to where the skills are. If you want to build a new F1 team you would be foolish to do it anywhere other than where all the majority of teams are currently based. I firmly believe had Toyota not based themselves in Cologne they would have been further up the grid faster. Getting the staff to a GP for a jolly is last on the list of importance to any F1 team boss, the staff would still work where they do if they didn't have that opportunity, thats not what motivates them.
The vast majority of motorsport jobs have no involvement with F1, if the British GP did go it might even help as more concentration would be put on the events that do generate the jobs. Motorsport has been under promoted for decades and that just might be the kick up the backside needed to change that.
John, I agree with what you say - it is obvious that the interest has increased because of Lewis and this has a big knock on effect. Add into that, though, the fact that those interested can go and see him live in their own country and that has to be beneficial to the industry.
I am sure a trip to a GP is not the thing that would make you choose to work for one team or another, and is not top of the list for the team managers in terms of rewards given out, but I am sure it would be a factor. I agree about the location of Toyota, however. But again, add to that another team could set up near them in Germany, in alocation convenient to Hockenheim and suddenly there would be reason for UK engineers to consider living in Germany as the prospects double - and all the governement income associated with those people is no longer in the UK.
Whilst most jobs in motorsport have nothing to do with F1, if someone sets out with a desire to work in F1 they are unlikely to land a job with McLaren straight off, but might be able to prove themselves with smaller organisations first. If the F1 teams are not in the UK they may think it better to start off where they are, and once that starts happening it becomes a snowball as if you were wanting to build cars for (dare I say it) lesser categories, you would get them built in the country where the best people were and so on.
Not saying it would happen overnight, but in 10 years time with no British GP I suspect the motorsport industry in the UK would be smaller than it is now.
I am sure a trip to a GP is not the thing that would make you choose to work for one team or another, and is not top of the list for the team managers in terms of rewards given out, but I am sure it would be a factor. I agree about the location of Toyota, however. But again, add to that another team could set up near them in Germany, in alocation convenient to Hockenheim and suddenly there would be reason for UK engineers to consider living in Germany as the prospects double - and all the governement income associated with those people is no longer in the UK.
Whilst most jobs in motorsport have nothing to do with F1, if someone sets out with a desire to work in F1 they are unlikely to land a job with McLaren straight off, but might be able to prove themselves with smaller organisations first. If the F1 teams are not in the UK they may think it better to start off where they are, and once that starts happening it becomes a snowball as if you were wanting to build cars for (dare I say it) lesser categories, you would get them built in the country where the best people were and so on.
Not saying it would happen overnight, but in 10 years time with no British GP I suspect the motorsport industry in the UK would be smaller than it is now.
Derek Smith said:
Much as I'm an F1 nerd, I don't think taxes should pay for what is essentially a sport. Such things should pay for themselves. Mind you, I think the same about opera.
What I resent is that my local taxes are going to pay for a stadium for my local footballs team. Yet this team used to have a perfectly good stadium, but the owner decided to sell it so now I've got to foot the bill for them to play somewhere nice. Mind you, given the type of football they play, the pitch should be good with all that crap on it. So I don't see how I could reasonably support money going towards Donington when we all know that the move is more to do with political infighting than the needs of the sport.
If Eccs wants to charge so much that it makes in uneconomic to run the British GP at Silverstone then there is no justification for my and you taxes going into his pocket.
As pointed out above, the road network around Silverstone has been paid for by you and me and we will not get full value out of it because Eccs has made a decision. It's all very well for Dennis to go on about the moneythat's been put into Valencia but there were loads of empty seats and if Alonso doesn't get his act together then they'll lose money hand over fist in the years to come.
Grand Prix are now seen as some form of status symbol, something for the high up government officials to be seen at and to pose in. That's what Eccs has done to our sport. I feel sure that no money goes into the pockets of corrupt officials in these countries, but one wonders why these politicians are so keen to pay for a sport where they can't get people to watch.
Dennis quotes Valencia but it is a dreadful circuit and the race was the most boring this season so far. And please let it be for the rest of the season as well. We are well rid of such a place.
Eccs taking our sport into places that have no F1 history and no real interest in the sport will mean the death of it unless his comes first.
Despite this season being, Valencia apart, the most exciting for some years, the threat to F1 is still the biggest it has ever been. The absolute disaster of Mosley would have been bad enough on its own yet the cancer eating away at F1 is this concentration on mega bucks. It seems our sport is up for sale to the highest bidder.
If F1 goes to more disinterested countries then there will soon not be enough camera angles to avoid the empty stands.
I still think the best hope for our sport is some form of breakaway series organised by the manfacturers. If they want to sell their cars in this country then they'll need to run a GP or two here. Does Mercedes really want two GPs in Spain?
F1 should go back to its roots and reform as a European series, with a couple of visits to the colonies to show them how its done.
You're an F1 nerd and think Alonso designs his own car? What I resent is that my local taxes are going to pay for a stadium for my local footballs team. Yet this team used to have a perfectly good stadium, but the owner decided to sell it so now I've got to foot the bill for them to play somewhere nice. Mind you, given the type of football they play, the pitch should be good with all that crap on it. So I don't see how I could reasonably support money going towards Donington when we all know that the move is more to do with political infighting than the needs of the sport.
If Eccs wants to charge so much that it makes in uneconomic to run the British GP at Silverstone then there is no justification for my and you taxes going into his pocket.
As pointed out above, the road network around Silverstone has been paid for by you and me and we will not get full value out of it because Eccs has made a decision. It's all very well for Dennis to go on about the moneythat's been put into Valencia but there were loads of empty seats and if Alonso doesn't get his act together then they'll lose money hand over fist in the years to come.
Grand Prix are now seen as some form of status symbol, something for the high up government officials to be seen at and to pose in. That's what Eccs has done to our sport. I feel sure that no money goes into the pockets of corrupt officials in these countries, but one wonders why these politicians are so keen to pay for a sport where they can't get people to watch.
Dennis quotes Valencia but it is a dreadful circuit and the race was the most boring this season so far. And please let it be for the rest of the season as well. We are well rid of such a place.
Eccs taking our sport into places that have no F1 history and no real interest in the sport will mean the death of it unless his comes first.
Despite this season being, Valencia apart, the most exciting for some years, the threat to F1 is still the biggest it has ever been. The absolute disaster of Mosley would have been bad enough on its own yet the cancer eating away at F1 is this concentration on mega bucks. It seems our sport is up for sale to the highest bidder.
If F1 goes to more disinterested countries then there will soon not be enough camera angles to avoid the empty stands.
I still think the best hope for our sport is some form of breakaway series organised by the manfacturers. If they want to sell their cars in this country then they'll need to run a GP or two here. Does Mercedes really want two GPs in Spain?
F1 should go back to its roots and reform as a European series, with a couple of visits to the colonies to show them how its done.
Apart from that you make some good points.
Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff