Ferrari penalties?
Discussion
Can anyone tell me when ferrari has received a proper penalty or not had a case go their way??
eg Not just a mere ten place grid drop for PARKING a car across the track stopping EVERYONE setting a decent time??
I know this will proberbly spark replies of "wot about all the times other teams escaped penalties" etc
but i still want to know about ferrari!!
eg Not just a mere ten place grid drop for PARKING a car across the track stopping EVERYONE setting a decent time??
I know this will proberbly spark replies of "wot about all the times other teams escaped penalties" etc
but i still want to know about ferrari!!
10 Pence Short said:
Schumacher was excluded from the 1997 Championship for trying to ram Villenueve off the track.
from the official notice:The World Council found that Michael Schumacher's manoeuvre was an instinctive reaction and although
deliberate not made with malice or premeditation. It was a serious error. The World Council decided to
exclude Michael Schumacher from the results of the 1997 FIA Formula One World Championship for drivers.
The final results of the FIA Formula One World Championship have been modified accordingly. The results of
the Constructors' Championship remain unchanged. Michael Schumacher retains his points and victories
recorded during the 1997 season.
Therefore although he was excluded from the actual drivers championship he received no real penalty did he? He was still able to earn points for the team.
Whereas other teams tend to receive time/grid penalties for such moves, penalising both the driver and the team.
I just think it is rediculous that every time Mclaren break the rules people on here never accept it, there is never any suggestion that they actually did anything wrong. Im not just talking about Spa, every penalty they get there are people moaning on here looking at the history books trying to prove how unfair they have been treated compared to other indidents.
Edited by tomTVR on Tuesday 23 September 22:59
running man said:
10 Pence Short said:
Schumacher was excluded from the 1997 Championship for trying to ram Villenueve off the track.
from the official notice:The World Council found that Michael Schumacher's manoeuvre was an instinctive reaction and although
deliberate not made with malice or premeditation. It was a serious error. The World Council decided to
exclude Michael Schumacher from the results of the 1997 FIA Formula One World Championship for drivers.
The final results of the FIA Formula One World Championship have been modified accordingly. The results of
the Constructors' Championship remain unchanged. Michael Schumacher retains his points and victories
recorded during the 1997 season.
Therefore although he was excluded from the actual drivers championship he received no real penalty did he? He was still able to earn points for the team.
Whereas other teams tend to receive time/grid penalties for such moves, penalising both the driver and the team.
The problem is it seems to me if you drive for another close title conteder than if you make some move that is anywhere even near doubtful you are more likely to be penalised than those driving for ferrari.
tomTVR said:
Maybe, just maybe, Ferrari dont break the rules as often as Mclaren? That bizzare eventuality never seems to be a consideration..
- Barge boards in 1999- Flexible floor in 2007
Both examples of running a car which was definitely illegal and should not even have been allowed in the race, but no punishment was given, and their results stand.
- Schumacher passing De La Rosa in 2006(?) - same as the incident Hamilton has just been punished for.
- Schumacher taking a stop go at the end of the last lap, British GP, technically not against the rules, but not in the expected sense of interpretation, but FIA interpretation it was OK and then clarifying the rule so it couldn't happen again so no Punishment. Hamilton, allowing a car to re-take a position and then passing again. Technically meeting the rule requirement, but FIA interpretation being it was wrong and then clarifying the rule.
- Numerous, obvious, finishes arranged through team orders within Ferrari, at times in the season when they were not required to ensure one driver got success when the other couldn't. Against the rules, but no investigation or punishment.
- There were very strong suggestions that when Honda received a two race ban for having a fuel tank system which potentially allowed the car to run under weight that Ferrari had the same set up, but the FIA never got round to investigating.
I am sure there were others, but right now I can neither remember them nor be bothered with looking them up.
tomTVR said:
oggs said:
Are you here to troll??
I just think it is rediculous that every time Mclaren break the rules people on here never accept it, there is never any suggestion that they actually did anything wrong. Im not just talking about Spa, every penalty they get there are people moaning on here looking at the history books trying to prove how unfair they have been treated compared to other indidents. ETA: assumed you meant me but re reading it im not so sure!
Edited by tomTVR on Tuesday 23 September 22:57
...when alonso was the rival he received penalties eg:"slowing massa's start on his 'fast' quali lap by coming out of the pits in front of him"(more than the full pit lane's length in front!)
andyps said:
tomTVR said:
Maybe, just maybe, Ferrari dont break the rules as often as Mclaren? That bizzare eventuality never seems to be a consideration..
- Barge boards in 1999- Flexible floor in 2007
Both examples of running a car which was definitely illegal and should not even have been allowed in the race, but no punishment was given, and their results stand.
- Schumacher passing De La Rosa in 2006(?) - same as the incident Hamilton has just been punished for.
- Schumacher taking a stop go at the end of the last lap, British GP, technically not against the rules, but not in the expected sense of interpretation, but FIA interpretation it was OK and then clarifying the rule so it couldn't happen again so no Punishment. Hamilton, allowing a car to re-take a position and then passing again. Technically meeting the rule requirement, but FIA interpretation being it was wrong and then clarifying the rule.
- Numerous, obvious, finishes arranged through team orders within Ferrari, at times in the season when they were not required to ensure one driver got success when the other couldn't. Against the rules, but no investigation or punishment.
- There were very strong suggestions that when Honda received a two race ban for having a fuel tank system which potentially allowed the car to run under weight that Ferrari had the same set up, but the FIA never got round to investigating.
I am sure there were others, but right now I can neither remember them nor be bothered with looking them up.
tomTVR said:
andyps said:
tomTVR said:
Maybe, just maybe, Ferrari dont break the rules as often as Mclaren? That bizzare eventuality never seems to be a consideration..
- Barge boards in 1999- Flexible floor in 2007
Both examples of running a car which was definitely illegal and should not even have been allowed in the race, but no punishment was given, and their results stand.
- Schumacher passing De La Rosa in 2006(?) - same as the incident Hamilton has just been punished for.
- Schumacher taking a stop go at the end of the last lap, British GP, technically not against the rules, but not in the expected sense of interpretation, but FIA interpretation it was OK and then clarifying the rule so it couldn't happen again so no Punishment. Hamilton, allowing a car to re-take a position and then passing again. Technically meeting the rule requirement, but FIA interpretation being it was wrong and then clarifying the rule.
- Numerous, obvious, finishes arranged through team orders within Ferrari, at times in the season when they were not required to ensure one driver got success when the other couldn't. Against the rules, but no investigation or punishment.
- There were very strong suggestions that when Honda received a two race ban for having a fuel tank system which potentially allowed the car to run under weight that Ferrari had the same set up, but the FIA never got round to investigating.
I am sure there were others, but right now I can neither remember them nor be bothered with looking them up.
tomTVR said:
andyps said:
tomTVR said:
Maybe, just maybe, Ferrari dont break the rules as often as Mclaren? That bizzare eventuality never seems to be a consideration..
- Barge boards in 1999- Flexible floor in 2007
Both examples of running a car which was definitely illegal and should not even have been allowed in the race, but no punishment was given, and their results stand.
- Schumacher passing De La Rosa in 2006(?) - same as the incident Hamilton has just been punished for.
- Schumacher taking a stop go at the end of the last lap, British GP, technically not against the rules, but not in the expected sense of interpretation, but FIA interpretation it was OK and then clarifying the rule so it couldn't happen again so no Punishment. Hamilton, allowing a car to re-take a position and then passing again. Technically meeting the rule requirement, but FIA interpretation being it was wrong and then clarifying the rule.
- Numerous, obvious, finishes arranged through team orders within Ferrari, at times in the season when they were not required to ensure one driver got success when the other couldn't. Against the rules, but no investigation or punishment.
- There were very strong suggestions that when Honda received a two race ban for having a fuel tank system which potentially allowed the car to run under weight that Ferrari had the same set up, but the FIA never got round to investigating.
I am sure there were others, but right now I can neither remember them nor be bothered with looking them up.
tomTVR said:
I just think it is rediculous that every time Mclaren break the rules people on here never accept it, there is never any suggestion that they actually did anything wrong. Im not just talking about Spa, every penalty they get there are people moaning on here looking at the history books trying to prove how unfair they have been treated compared to other indidents.
Interesting that you think that it is "red-iculous".Would you be kind enough to give us a few examples of when McLaren really did break the rules, but weren't punished?
Would you be kind enough to give us a few examples of when Ferrari really didn't break the rules, but were punished?
The reason that I ask is that many of us can give you plenty of examples of when Ferrari did break the rules but were not punished, when McLaren did not break the rules but were punished, and when McLaren did not break the rules, but the rules were changed to prevent them from maintaining an advantage over Ferrari.
Btw, you may wish to consult this compendium:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Interestingly, we find that, in the last ten years, there have been three examples of Ferrari's having been penalised, and more than twenty examples of Ferrari's direct competitor's having been penalised.
That suggests something a bit more substantial than sheer randomness, wouldn't you think?
flemke said:
tomTVR said:
I just think it is rediculous that every time Mclaren break the rules people on here never accept it, there is never any suggestion that they actually did anything wrong. Im not just talking about Spa, every penalty they get there are people moaning on here looking at the history books trying to prove how unfair they have been treated compared to other indidents.
Interesting that you think that it is "red-iculous".Would you be kind enough to give us a few examples of when McLaren really did break the rules, but weren't punished?
Would you be kind enough to give us a few examples of when Ferrari really didn't break the rules, but were punished?
The reason that I ask is that many of us can give you plenty of examples of when Ferrari did break the rules but were not punished, when McLaren did not break the rules but were punished, and when McLaren did not break the rules, but the rules were changed to prevent them from maintaining an advantage over Ferrari.
Btw, you may wish to consult this compendium:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Interestingly, we find that, in the last ten years, there have been three examples of Ferrari's having been penalised, and more than twenty examples of Ferrari's direct competitor's having been penalised.
That suggests something a bit more substantial than sheer randomness, wouldn't you think?
flemke said:
That suggests something a bit more substantial than sheer randomness, wouldn't you think?
Other teams breaking the rules more? How i am supposed to recall every single infringement by every single team in recent history?Im not going to argue the toss, that is quite an impressive list of desicions going Ferraris way (over a ten year period). Perhaps if Ferrari had a rear brake pedal then Mclaren could have that banned on a technicality. Each incident in treated differently, youre talking bias here clearly. What about Massa's pitlane incident in montreal last year? That was not a serious rule break (in terms of either safety or position) yet that DQ put a huge dent in Massa's season.
I'm not going to get into another massive deabate about FIA bias beacuse i will end up banging my head again a brick wall. It cheeses me off they way some people feel they have the moral high ground. Rules are rules, if one team gets away with something one race you cant just let a rival off with a similar offence just to make it fair.
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