Was Johnny Herbert a wasted talent?

[entropy]

He was according to Alan Henry in the current F1 Racing magazine!!!

Henry lists Rene Arnoux, Jan Magnusson and Montoya and yet the first person mentioned is poor Herbert!

WTF?!

[FourWheelDrift]

If it wasn't for Gregor Foitek and Brands Hatch 1988 he would have been the success we all thought he would be in F1. He did at least win 3 F1 races with 2 different teams (not many do that) and have a successful Sports Car career. The other one that didn't do what was expected in F1 was Allan McNish, that al seemed to go away following his Donington F3000 accident in 1990 and a stalled contract to race Formula Nippon.

[entropy]

But he's listed with the likes of Montoya and Magnussen - self destructive personalities.

That accident was no fault of his own. He didn't ask to have to his legs crippled just. And in no way did he lack motivation. He went through the pain barrier and beyond to persue his F1 dream.

[FourWheelDrift]

Perhaps wasted is not meant in the terms that he wasted his own talent, it was done for him.

[freedman]

A talent unrealised maybe but as you say, through no fault of his own

Certainly not wasted

Not sure Arnoux deserves to be mentioned either TBH

[FourWheelDrift]

freedman said:

Not sure Arnoux deserves to be mentioned either TBH

If he had quit at the end of 1984 maybe. After all he was the one that gave Villenueve such a race at Dijon in 79.

[Jungles]

FourWheelDrift said:

freedman said:

Not sure Arnoux deserves to be mentioned either TBH

If he had quit at the end of 1984 maybe. After all he was the one that gave Villenueve such a race at Dijon in 79.

Arnoux was in a superior car though.

He admitted after the race: "I knew I'd been beaten by the best driver in the world"

[Ponk]

TVR Moneypit said:

Jaques Villenerve

Did he not win the WDC?

[FourWheelDrift]

That's because the BAR was rubbish.

[williamp]

FourWheelDrift said:

That's because the BAR was rubbish.

Yes, but it was JV's choice to leave Williams (at the very top of their game) and join them. Great F1 drivers are also about luck and knowing what to do.

[entropy]

TVR Moneypit said:

I'm sure that there are many others who could be added to such a list. Drivers who promised so much in the lower formula, but nver really delivered in the top flight.

Oliver Gavin
JJ Lehto
Mika Salo
Eric Bernard
Jean Alesi
Ivan Capelli
Vincenzo Sosperi
Emmanule Collard
Rubans Barrachello
David Coulthard
Eric Comas
Jaques Villenerve

To name but a few.

At least JV won a championship

DC and Barrichello had satisfying F1 career. Couldn't ask for more. Both won handful of GP and were strong #2 at the very least. Hakkinen peaked at the right moment and became a force to be reckoned with. RB probably would've delivered the driver's title in as many years for Ferrari had he been in Irvine's position in 1999. Beating Schumacher to the title was a bit too much to ask IMO.

Alesi is funny one. Never had the right car, turned down FW14 for the truck that was Ferrari. Probably a bit over-rated. Phonix battle with Senna was a stand out and gets talked about. I think he was in the same league as RB and DC because he never convincingly beat Berger IIRC???

[FourWheelDrift]

The 1998 Williams Mecachrome (old Renault engine) that he drove as world Champion in that awful Winfield Sponsorship colours that I said would never win a race, never won a race. He probably left Williams after that looking for something better and was bought in by the Reynard "We have won on debut in every class we have ever entered" mantra. Having bought into the team as a shareholder he probably felt obliged to stick with it. So quite a few wasted years in the old dog.

[Al W]

FourWheelDrift said:

If it wasn't for Gregor Foitek and Brands Hatch 1988 he would have been the success we all thought he would be in F1. He did at least win 3 F1 races with 2 different teams (not many do that) and have a successful Sports Car career.

I was at Brands that day, and remember the speed at which Johnny pulled away from the field was stunning.

[Red Firecracker]

I think one of the most telling things was that pre accident in every interview JH was insistent that he WOULD be F1 World Champion. Post accident he 'merely' wanted to be F1 World Champion. I think that's quite a telling difference, but maybe a quite understandable, change of perspective.

I would have liked nothing more than for JH to become WC, a truly nice bloke.

I also love his comment upon his retirement/final race smash, which was something like "I was carried into my first F1 car and I was carried out of my last"

[FourWheelDrift]

Al W said:

FourWheelDrift said:

If it wasn't for Gregor Foitek and Brands Hatch 1988 he would have been the success we all thought he would be in F1. He did at least win 3 F1 races with 2 different teams (not many do that) and have a successful Sports Car career.

I was at Brands that day, and remember the speed at which Johnny pulled away from the field was stunning.

Yep, then Foitek and Moreno clashed at Paddock bringing out the red flag, then a poor restart had him 3rd with Foitek behind him before Foitek tangled with him and made contact just under the bridge at Pilgrims.

Only 6 cars made the 3rd restart.

This is from Johnny's own website.

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Wednesday 24th September 14:43

[Stuismyname]

Martin Brundle? Wasted talent or just a precocity that peaked after reaching F1?

[Murph7355]

Top bloke JH. Wish there were more like him in the cars today.

[FourWheelDrift]

Stuismyname said:

Martin Brundle? Wasted talent or just a precocity that peaked after reaching F1?

Another one who suffered bad ankle injuries (both broken), he's said recently when testing F1 cars for ITV that he can't apply the same brake pedal pressure as the current lot due to the effects of the crash he suffered at Dallas in 1984. Still the only man to get closest to Schumacher during a season though.

[suffolkpaul]

Hang on.

dont get confused here. in the article a he has is not saying that Herbert wasted the talent is he?? simply that the talent was wasted by those aroudn him. not given the opportunites.

personally i think he did a great job in every car he had.

front row in a lotus at monza.

2 wins a benetton

1 le mans win. A hell of a lot of drivers dont achive anywhere near that!

[FourWheelDrift]

Don't forget the F1 win for Stewart-Ford in 99