Britcar 2009 Support Race
Discussion
We've looked at this before but didnt have enough cars, Owen has raised it again, so I've asked the question to James to see what the costs and availability is.
What are peoples thoughts on this would they like to do it ? It would probably be a stand alone race outside the TVR Challenge and we would need a big grid to pull it off. but we do have a year to sort entries.
There are not very many opportunities to race on the Full GP circuit ( the national doesnt compare) so this is probably our main chance, although dont expect it to be cheap.
SO do you fancy it?
What are peoples thoughts on this would they like to do it ? It would probably be a stand alone race outside the TVR Challenge and we would need a big grid to pull it off. but we do have a year to sort entries.
There are not very many opportunities to race on the Full GP circuit ( the national doesnt compare) so this is probably our main chance, although dont expect it to be cheap.
SO do you fancy it?
I dont think an AJP has ever done it. shorty's cerb was a speed6!!!
I've been working towards an entry for a few years now learning ( at others expense) whats required..
so far I've done it with moore racing ( BMW and Civic) and Eclipse (Mosler)
It is a huge undertaking... but If your serious give me a call and I can run you through my experiences...
You need a team of about 20 people at least pit wall, mechanics, tyre crew, fuel crew, food crew
Dont underestimate the cost either. the cars going to need to be rebuilt before and after the race.. and then there is just the fuel and tyre cost... we used about a litre a minute and 10 sets of slicks, oh yes and trashed one engine in the warm up !!!!
Cheers
G
p.s. I was serious about the fuel cell as well. if either the sag or the ginetta had an ally tank both drives would be toast, the ally containers buckled but the bag tanks didnt!!! budget around 3k for a simple shaped tank....
To be honest I'd have thought youd be better off talking to Tim and seeing about running in their sag next year, with a view to the cerb in maybe 2010
G
I've been working towards an entry for a few years now learning ( at others expense) whats required..
so far I've done it with moore racing ( BMW and Civic) and Eclipse (Mosler)
It is a huge undertaking... but If your serious give me a call and I can run you through my experiences...
You need a team of about 20 people at least pit wall, mechanics, tyre crew, fuel crew, food crew
Dont underestimate the cost either. the cars going to need to be rebuilt before and after the race.. and then there is just the fuel and tyre cost... we used about a litre a minute and 10 sets of slicks, oh yes and trashed one engine in the warm up !!!!
Cheers
G
p.s. I was serious about the fuel cell as well. if either the sag or the ginetta had an ally tank both drives would be toast, the ally containers buckled but the bag tanks didnt!!! budget around 3k for a simple shaped tank....
To be honest I'd have thought youd be better off talking to Tim and seeing about running in their sag next year, with a view to the cerb in maybe 2010
G
Fuel cell is on order. The rebuild before and after has been budgeted for.
I was going to post more about this early next year. But what were hopping to do is run a team of TVR people. The aim is to finish not to win.
I think getting a cerb with pretty much all standard cerb parts to finish would be quite an achivement. I believe it is achievable!
Mike
I was going to post more about this early next year. But what were hopping to do is run a team of TVR people. The aim is to finish not to win.
I think getting a cerb with pretty much all standard cerb parts to finish would be quite an achivement. I believe it is achievable!
Mike
Edited by itsallyellow on Thursday 25th September 10:58
Unsurprisingly I would be bang up for it!!
(the support race and the 24)
I do believe with the number of TVR fans that made the effort to go to the race that the BRSCC should look at letting us race on the bill, if only as a crowd pleaser.
did i mention i led the race on my own for 2 hours on sunday morning
(the support race and the 24)
I do believe with the number of TVR fans that made the effort to go to the race that the BRSCC should look at letting us race on the bill, if only as a crowd pleaser.
did i mention i led the race on my own for 2 hours on sunday morning
Obiwonkeyblokey said:
I do believe with the number of TVR fans that made the effort to go to the race that the BRSCC should look at letting us race on the bill, if only as a crowd pleaser.
getting on the billing is all down to pound notes and persuading James Tucker that we can put on a good show..basically he will give us a price for the track time, and we have to be able to come up with that.
G
Not got a race license as you know Mike, but I'd be glad to help you out in both the prep and support in the race, even if its just carrying the tyres and showing you how fast you're going on the lappy! 
I do love this racing malarky, just not got the wedge to get involved just yet so helping out in the mean time is almost as good
I do love this racing malarky, just not got the wedge to get involved just yet so helping out in the mean time is almost as good
It's cost me about £15k to get the Cerb to race reliably for 30 minutes over and above the norm for the GT Cup over and above a good class B TVR racer, plus the weight you have to carry in these classes, which at 1000kg you don't! Mike I love your ambition but I have to say that this is a massive leap!
Things I have on a 1120kg dry car that I didn't have in TVR racing are:
Venting of front to discs, you may have this as you have no bodywork!!
Racing box, clutch and diff with recirculating diff oil condenser.
Heat dissapation and channeling underneath.
Recirculating Oil catch tank system. It pisses out under full chat when hot!
Mapping, head and rails etc..to max power versus heat.
Discs and pads are eaten through!
Tank, your sorting
Tyres, I run 1 set to all the other teams two to three in GT!!
Fuel, you'll probably have to move to 105 Octane to avoid overheating and detonation. Triple price!
The wishbones!
New bearings every weekend!
Additional weight that all the above contribute to.
General wear and tear on oils and fluids and brakes etc..
To go 24 hours you could triple this in terms of cost!!! Not including 8 sets of tyres!
I know you are 150 kg dry lighter than me and the aliviation that this gives but I can understand 6 hours but no more!!
Things I have on a 1120kg dry car that I didn't have in TVR racing are:
Venting of front to discs, you may have this as you have no bodywork!!
Racing box, clutch and diff with recirculating diff oil condenser.
Heat dissapation and channeling underneath.
Recirculating Oil catch tank system. It pisses out under full chat when hot!
Mapping, head and rails etc..to max power versus heat.
Discs and pads are eaten through!
Tank, your sorting
Tyres, I run 1 set to all the other teams two to three in GT!!
Fuel, you'll probably have to move to 105 Octane to avoid overheating and detonation. Triple price!
The wishbones!
New bearings every weekend!
Additional weight that all the above contribute to.
General wear and tear on oils and fluids and brakes etc..
To go 24 hours you could triple this in terms of cost!!! Not including 8 sets of tyres!
I know you are 150 kg dry lighter than me and the aliviation that this gives but I can understand 6 hours but no more!!
Edited by JonnyW on Thursday 25th September 22:50
JonnyW said:
Fuel, you'll probably have to move to 105 Octane to avoid overheating and detonation. Triple price!
you have to use Britcar supplied fuel, which is tescos 99 octane...as for tyres i reckon you need to budget for 10 sets...
its a juggle between how many stints a set will do, refueling periods and driver hours...
you may be able to get 3 hours out of a set of tyres, but it you do say 1:15 on a fuel stint, you'll end up changing a set after 2h30 mins..
when it warmed up we couldnt get a full double stint out of the rears on the molser, so then your down to a set of tyres every stint !!!
as for brakes your certainly going to do at least one pad and disk change if not more..
Mike I dont want you to get the impression im dismissing your idea, anything but. as I said I've spent the last 4 years researching whats needed the hard way although at someone elses expense ( heck I even got paid this time :-) ) so I've got a handle on what I think is required..
We were budgeting on 15-20k to run a class 4/5 car plus buying and preping it !! and thats just with a mg zr or civic type car..
I'd love to see a TVR compete and do well, and will support any campaign, but its hard, very hard to get to the end of the 24hr still sane...
Cheers
G
We were budgeting on 15-20k to run a class 4/5 car plus buying and preping it !! and thats just with a mg zr or civic type car..
I'd love to see a TVR compete and do well, and will support any campaign, but its hard, very hard to get to the end of the 24hr still sane...
Cheers
G
when your doing your calculations fuel consumption is key..
the max stint a driver can do is 3 hours in any 5 so you ideally want to be able to run at least 1:30 on your fuel allocation which will be 90 or 100 litres dependent on class ( class 1 or class2)
your tank wants to be slightly over what ever the limit is as you can start with any fuel load, but can only take on so much per refuel.
my tuscan runs at about a litre a minute so I could in theory just manage 1:30 on a 90 litre fill.
there is a bit of jiggery pokery there as refueling is included in the driving time which gives you a couple of litres back.. each stint as you have to have re fueled and be back to the main pits before the 3 hours runs out..
If you know certain components cant do 24hr i.e. brakes and drive shafts then you need to schedule in a change with time in hand. i.e. if driveshafts will do 12 hours then is it better to schedule in changing them twice at 8 & 16 hours or risk a breakage on track with possible other damage and an average 30 min recovery time back to the pits.
G
the max stint a driver can do is 3 hours in any 5 so you ideally want to be able to run at least 1:30 on your fuel allocation which will be 90 or 100 litres dependent on class ( class 1 or class2)
your tank wants to be slightly over what ever the limit is as you can start with any fuel load, but can only take on so much per refuel.
my tuscan runs at about a litre a minute so I could in theory just manage 1:30 on a 90 litre fill.
there is a bit of jiggery pokery there as refueling is included in the driving time which gives you a couple of litres back.. each stint as you have to have re fueled and be back to the main pits before the 3 hours runs out..
If you know certain components cant do 24hr i.e. brakes and drive shafts then you need to schedule in a change with time in hand. i.e. if driveshafts will do 12 hours then is it better to schedule in changing them twice at 8 & 16 hours or risk a breakage on track with possible other damage and an average 30 min recovery time back to the pits.
G
Graham said:
Mike I dont want you to get the impression im dismissing your idea, anything but. as I said I've spent the last 4 years researching whats needed the hard way although at someone elses expense ( heck I even got paid this time :-) ) so I've got a handle on what I think is required..
We were budgeting on 15-20k to run a class 4/5 car plus buying and preping it !! and thats just with a mg zr or civic type car..
I'd love to see a TVR compete and do well, and will support any campaign, but its hard, very hard to get to the end of the 24hr still sane...
Cheers
G
Didnt think you were Graham! thanks for the advice and information!We were budgeting on 15-20k to run a class 4/5 car plus buying and preping it !! and thats just with a mg zr or civic type car..
I'd love to see a TVR compete and do well, and will support any campaign, but its hard, very hard to get to the end of the 24hr still sane...
Cheers
G
Mike
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