Rolling road setup (cost of, midlands)
Discussion
Hi,
I bought a westfeild a few weeks ago with a Ford 1.9 CVH engine on twin Dellorto 40's
The engine was changed within the last year or so, as a direct swap for another the same, using the existing intake/exhast setup.
However i get the feeling it could do with being setup properly. Particularly as ive since had the ignition to bits, so the ignition timing needs a timing lamp on it if nothing else.
Basicaly, im relativly new to the whole game, and would like to have someone who knows what there doing set the engine up properly. As well as being interested in what it actually puts out as well.
However i dont really know of the costs involved (im a student) or how to go about it. Accoding to www.rollingroadregister.com which i found off another thread off here theres a place called 'Street Racers' in Leicester, as well as several other places around the Nottingham/Birminham area (im in loughborough)
So yeah, just trying to get my head round it really.
Cheers, Daniel.
I bought a westfeild a few weeks ago with a Ford 1.9 CVH engine on twin Dellorto 40's
The engine was changed within the last year or so, as a direct swap for another the same, using the existing intake/exhast setup.
However i get the feeling it could do with being setup properly. Particularly as ive since had the ignition to bits, so the ignition timing needs a timing lamp on it if nothing else.
Basicaly, im relativly new to the whole game, and would like to have someone who knows what there doing set the engine up properly. As well as being interested in what it actually puts out as well.
However i dont really know of the costs involved (im a student) or how to go about it. Accoding to www.rollingroadregister.com which i found off another thread off here theres a place called 'Street Racers' in Leicester, as well as several other places around the Nottingham/Birminham area (im in loughborough)
So yeah, just trying to get my head round it really.
Cheers, Daniel.
Daniel,
Have the carbs have been set up properly before? If they have then don't worry about them but if not then the money spent on a rolling road tune will be money very well spent.
If the carbs have been set up before then the only routine maintenance should be a balance check with a manometer - fancy vacuum gauge to ensure all four inlets are balanced.
Do you know what the ignition timing should be? If not then a RR will help.
However you can get the timing right, for the state of tune of your engine, by adjusting the timing and then driving the car. Always adjust in small amounts and when you have advanced it to far the engine will sort of 'hesitate' when starting.
If you fancy a run out to Skegness I'll gladly help you set it up, I have a manometer and a timing light! Email me via my profile if you want.
Have the carbs have been set up properly before? If they have then don't worry about them but if not then the money spent on a rolling road tune will be money very well spent.
If the carbs have been set up before then the only routine maintenance should be a balance check with a manometer - fancy vacuum gauge to ensure all four inlets are balanced.
Do you know what the ignition timing should be? If not then a RR will help.
However you can get the timing right, for the state of tune of your engine, by adjusting the timing and then driving the car. Always adjust in small amounts and when you have advanced it to far the engine will sort of 'hesitate' when starting.
If you fancy a run out to Skegness I'll gladly help you set it up, I have a manometer and a timing light! Email me via my profile if you want.
I dont know the history of the engine/carbs/timing at all really.
- The bloke i bought it off had had it about a year, and it was him who affected the engine change, which was due to the previous engine failing, and as i say was replaced like-for-like change with a replacment (secondhand) simular engine which was droped into the existing instalation with no further setup (and i dont know if/when i was setup before that) Said replacment engine was previously in a raced fiesta on TBs, which wernt included in the sale.
I sadly dont have any real paperwork for the current engine either, apprently this was promissed in the sale, but never materialised. I dont even have much for the engine that was i the car before that (as far as i know the cars orignal engine) other than odd recepts for a ph3 cam, the remote oil filter, fordmotorsports rocker cover, and the work to bore it out.
Since i bought the car the engine has also stopped running, and after (i think incorrect) advise that it may well be an issue with dirt in the fuel ive had the carbs off and cleaned and replaced them. Checked the valve timing (which appears to be correct) and had the disstributor off. Which seams to be the actuall problem. And im waiting for a replacment.
So yeah. I dont really know what the igntion timing should be, bar lining it up near enough to get it running and trying to get hold of someone with a timing strobe. Ditto the carbs could be anywhere. Although to the best of my knowlage i didnt disturb any of the adjustment and refitted as was anything i removed.
So yeah. Sounds largly like a session on a road would be a good idea. But also proberbly worth geting it looked over by someone else who knows what there doing to have a look at it before that?
(which if with a new dissy i can get it going anyway, is a bit of prerequisite anyway!)
At £100 an hour, how long is the car likly to need.
Obviously i spent nearly £4k on the car, and £900 on a covered trailer for it, so if it needs £250 or more to get it setup and running properly then it should get it. But at the same time im now back at uni for the next two years having had a sandwich year where i was earning. So im not in a possition where i can afford to waste money where its not actually needed. And im fairly sure the suspension is orignal from 1991 and well due some attention too.
When i bought the car a month ago it ran fine, although it sounded a bit rich, and had earlier in the year been to the alps and back.
Daniel
- The bloke i bought it off had had it about a year, and it was him who affected the engine change, which was due to the previous engine failing, and as i say was replaced like-for-like change with a replacment (secondhand) simular engine which was droped into the existing instalation with no further setup (and i dont know if/when i was setup before that) Said replacment engine was previously in a raced fiesta on TBs, which wernt included in the sale.
I sadly dont have any real paperwork for the current engine either, apprently this was promissed in the sale, but never materialised. I dont even have much for the engine that was i the car before that (as far as i know the cars orignal engine) other than odd recepts for a ph3 cam, the remote oil filter, fordmotorsports rocker cover, and the work to bore it out.
Since i bought the car the engine has also stopped running, and after (i think incorrect) advise that it may well be an issue with dirt in the fuel ive had the carbs off and cleaned and replaced them. Checked the valve timing (which appears to be correct) and had the disstributor off. Which seams to be the actuall problem. And im waiting for a replacment.
So yeah. I dont really know what the igntion timing should be, bar lining it up near enough to get it running and trying to get hold of someone with a timing strobe. Ditto the carbs could be anywhere. Although to the best of my knowlage i didnt disturb any of the adjustment and refitted as was anything i removed.
So yeah. Sounds largly like a session on a road would be a good idea. But also proberbly worth geting it looked over by someone else who knows what there doing to have a look at it before that?
(which if with a new dissy i can get it going anyway, is a bit of prerequisite anyway!)
At £100 an hour, how long is the car likly to need.
Obviously i spent nearly £4k on the car, and £900 on a covered trailer for it, so if it needs £250 or more to get it setup and running properly then it should get it. But at the same time im now back at uni for the next two years having had a sandwich year where i was earning. So im not in a possition where i can afford to waste money where its not actually needed. And im fairly sure the suspension is orignal from 1991 and well due some attention too.
When i bought the car a month ago it ran fine, although it sounded a bit rich, and had earlier in the year been to the alps and back.
Daniel
dhutch said:
Hi,
Basicaly, im relativly new to the whole game, and would like to have someone who knows what there doing set the engine up properly. As well as being interested in what it actually puts out as well.
other places around the Nottingham/Birminham area (im in loughborough)
Cheers, Daniel.
Good evening Daniel. The only place for carbs these days is Pete Burgess, at Alfreton, just off junction 28 on the M1. It's only about 30 minutes up the M1 for you and he will set everything up from scratch if need be. He is an engine builder specialising in MGBs/rover V8s and cylinder head gas flowing but is unbeatable at setup with carbs on any engine.Basicaly, im relativly new to the whole game, and would like to have someone who knows what there doing set the engine up properly. As well as being interested in what it actually puts out as well.
other places around the Nottingham/Birminham area (im in loughborough)
Cheers, Daniel.
He is cheap too and will only charge you about £40, no matter how long it takes. His number is 01773-520021 and if you call him tell him Capt.Tim sent you. You won't be disappointed. Just google Pete Burgess and his mgcars website will come up.
Trust me, he has done my heads and dynos for 25 years now and he knows his stuff.
Rhds Tim.
toymota33 said:
Good evening Daniel. The only place for carbs these days is Pete Burgess, at Alfreton, just off junction 28 on the M1. It's only about 30 minutes up the M1 for you and he will set everything up from scratch if need be. He is an engine builder specialising in MGBs/rover V8s and cylinder head gas flowing but is unbeatable at setup with carbs on any engine.
He is cheap too and will only charge you about £40, no matter how long it takes. His number is 01773-520021 and if you call him tell him Capt.Tim sent you. You won't be disappointed. Just google Pete Burgess and his mgcars website will come up.
Trust me, he has done my heads and dynos for 25 years now and he knows his stuff.
Rhds Tim.
Sounds like a good bloke and a good deal if what you say is right.He is cheap too and will only charge you about £40, no matter how long it takes. His number is 01773-520021 and if you call him tell him Capt.Tim sent you. You won't be disappointed. Just google Pete Burgess and his mgcars website will come up.
Trust me, he has done my heads and dynos for 25 years now and he knows his stuff.
Rhds Tim.
- Certainly the sort of information i could really do with and somthing to follow up on monday.
If the worse comes to the worse and depending on if he's interested i could tow the car down to him to look at and that would be a really good service right now if it could work out.
Cheers, Daniel
Cheers again.
Heres some photos of it as well:
Engine as i bought it.
Timing belt and top pulley. (was a little slack, but seams to be timed correctly)
The dissy rotor as is. (doesnt too to healthy, but nothing as such wrong)
The rockers. (just making sure one hadnt jumped)
Some further photos of the dissy.
Apprently according to the bloke i bought the car of it could be the black box on the underside of the dissy, which i have a spare of.
- Doing a bit of digging i seem to have a Bosch distributor (redtop) and that earlier ones where lucus (blacktop) and thats what the spare amplifier i have is off, hence it wont actually fit.
- So in the short term in going to get a new dissy i think, as i generally looks fairly claped anyway. And in the long term i may well consider a megajolt/megasquirt. Maybe Even TBs one day?
Cheers, Daniel.
Heres some photos of it as well:
Engine as i bought it.
Timing belt and top pulley. (was a little slack, but seams to be timed correctly)
The dissy rotor as is. (doesnt too to healthy, but nothing as such wrong)
The rockers. (just making sure one hadnt jumped)
Some further photos of the dissy.
Apprently according to the bloke i bought the car of it could be the black box on the underside of the dissy, which i have a spare of.
- Doing a bit of digging i seem to have a Bosch distributor (redtop) and that earlier ones where lucus (blacktop) and thats what the spare amplifier i have is off, hence it wont actually fit.
- So in the short term in going to get a new dissy i think, as i generally looks fairly claped anyway. And in the long term i may well consider a megajolt/megasquirt. Maybe Even TBs one day?
Cheers, Daniel.
Edited by dhutch on Tuesday 7th October 12:00
Edited by dhutch on Tuesday 7th October 12:01
i used to run a 1.9 CVH US tall block on twin 40 DCNFs in a sprint/hillclimb car. the ignition amplifiers (black widget) tend to fail thru excessive revs it seems. carry a spare and you should be ok. also make sure theres plenty of the heatsink grease between the amp and distrib body too.
i think Aldon would be worth a shot too
HTH
CNH
i think Aldon would be worth a shot too
HTH
CNH
CNHSS1 said:
i used to run a 1.9 CVH US tall block on twin 40 DCNFs in a sprint/hillclimb car. the ignition amplifiers (black widget) tend to fail thru excessive revs it seems. carry a spare and you should be ok. also make sure theres plenty of the heatsink grease between the amp and distrib body too.
Yeah, your about the third person who said they tend to fail when pushed, so i'll deffonatly get down to the autosparks tomorrow (have a free day) and see what i can do.- I have some heatsink grease from my computer tinkering so i'll get some on it too.
- I think the previous person had stuck it on with some vasoline behind it by the looks.
Daniel
Longers said:
I recommend these guys.........
http://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/default.asp?i...
They support a few Westies in the race series, so they know the cars well.http://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/default.asp?i...
tim2100 said:
Another good guy is Aldon Automotive in Brierley hill
They know Westfields inside out (being close to the factory helps)
They do quite a lot of motorsport stuff.
I give these guys my vote to.They know Westfields inside out (being close to the factory helps)
They do quite a lot of motorsport stuff.
Spent the whole morning there setting the carbs and getting it running properly. We came away with a nice print out and feeling chuffed. They were also very reasonable.
HTH
Rpm
Just thought i would keep you guys up to date with whats been happening, if anyones still about.
I managed to borrow a timing strobe and a second pair of hands to work it and the ignition timing was MILES out. Like 20degrees retarded of TDC.
Advancing the distributor to its limit bought it back to about 5deg retarded, but still clearly wrong, and something else must have changed because the dizzy wasnt at the end of its limit for sure for sure.
So we did some dancing, and tried a new rotor, although as pointed out at the time, that wouldnt affect the timing just the quality of spark.
Then we got back onto the thought of slipped timing belts.
As pointed out on here, the vernier has been advanced upto the end of its limit, presumably when the engine was setup on a road or something. Who knows.
However the debated stated that although the keyways currently line up about right, bar maybe half a deg retarding. Perhaps they shouldnt?
- Surely with the vernier about in the middle it should line up, then someone advanced it. So its slipped.
- You could hypothetically advance it a tooth, then returning the vernier to its mid position would retard it back to the factory starting position.
So we decided after a while of thought that it had slipped, and hence we should advance it a tooth. And carefully turn it over to make sure there was no valve clash. (we werent that sure!)
Anyone, we did it, and fired it up, and set the ignition time with the strobe to about 20degs advance (1500revs, vacuum pipe off).
And it runs the best it had since it started causing problems. Result?
We've also set the belt tension back to about what i think it should be.
It still doesnt sound maybe dead right. Still running a bit rich i think. And popping and backing a bit. And the forward carb has got a bit of an inlet leak on it. So it all needs some attention yet. But progress seams to have been made.
I dont know what anyone elses thoughts or comments are?
Im still planning, funds allowing, to get it a rolling road asap, but she does run now. And tomorrow i try and drive her as soon as i can get her our of the drive (shes parked in).
Daniel
I managed to borrow a timing strobe and a second pair of hands to work it and the ignition timing was MILES out. Like 20degrees retarded of TDC.
Advancing the distributor to its limit bought it back to about 5deg retarded, but still clearly wrong, and something else must have changed because the dizzy wasnt at the end of its limit for sure for sure.
So we did some dancing, and tried a new rotor, although as pointed out at the time, that wouldnt affect the timing just the quality of spark.
Then we got back onto the thought of slipped timing belts.
As pointed out on here, the vernier has been advanced upto the end of its limit, presumably when the engine was setup on a road or something. Who knows.
However the debated stated that although the keyways currently line up about right, bar maybe half a deg retarding. Perhaps they shouldnt?
- Surely with the vernier about in the middle it should line up, then someone advanced it. So its slipped.
- You could hypothetically advance it a tooth, then returning the vernier to its mid position would retard it back to the factory starting position.
So we decided after a while of thought that it had slipped, and hence we should advance it a tooth. And carefully turn it over to make sure there was no valve clash. (we werent that sure!)
Anyone, we did it, and fired it up, and set the ignition time with the strobe to about 20degs advance (1500revs, vacuum pipe off).
And it runs the best it had since it started causing problems. Result?
We've also set the belt tension back to about what i think it should be.
It still doesnt sound maybe dead right. Still running a bit rich i think. And popping and backing a bit. And the forward carb has got a bit of an inlet leak on it. So it all needs some attention yet. But progress seams to have been made.
I dont know what anyone elses thoughts or comments are?
Im still planning, funds allowing, to get it a rolling road asap, but she does run now. And tomorrow i try and drive her as soon as i can get her our of the drive (shes parked in).
Daniel
custardtart said:
I would if I could but I can't - that's why I take mine to Northampton Motorsport! 
Yeah well i may well yet take it to Aldon or Northampton, however half the reason i bought the car was becuase im not as good as i would like to be.- Give my a fault with our steam engine and im over it like a rash, pug electrics no problem, but gut instinct on timing/ignition and im no where.
Ive found someone in loughborough with a cvh engined locost that he races/tracks so ive been talking to him online but yet to meet him and show him the car.
- He was talking about DTI gauges and timing wheels and methods of acturatly finding tdc so im looking fwd to that, although he doesnt have all the gear with him at uni.
I figure that with some thought, knowlage, assistence, and time. I should be able to get the valve and igntion timing right. And then take it somewhere with the knowlage that ive atleast met them half way. Thats the idea anyway. But im not going to profess to knowing what im doing just yet, and ballencing twin carbs might be a later lesson.
Daniel
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