F1 team "genealogy"

[garycat]

How far back can you trace a team's ancestors? e.g.

Force India -> Spyker -> Midland -> Jordan
Torro Rosso -> Minardi
Red Bull -> Jaguar -> Stewart -> Prost(?)
BMW -> Sauber
Honda -> BAR -> Arrows(?)

[FourWheelDrift]

garycat said:

Honda -> BAR -> Arrows(?)

Honda - BAR - Tyrrell.

Stewart were a new team. No association with Prost, who were Ligier.

[freedman]

garycat said:

How far back can you trace a team's ancestors? e.g.

Force India -> Spyker -> Midland -> Jordan
Torro Rosso -> Minardi
Red Bull -> Jaguar -> Stewart -> Prost(?)
BMW -> Sauber
Honda -> BAR -> Arrows(?)

Phoenix(well it would have been but for the FIA) ->Prost -> Ligier

Super Aguri -> Arrows -> Footwork -> Arrows -> Shadow (well in part at least)

Edited by freedman on Sunday 12th October 13:46

[Gold]

Renault -> Benetton -> Toleman

[andyps]

freedman said:

Super Aguri -> Arrows -> Footwork -> Arrows -> Shadow (well in part at least)

And isn't the other part of Shadow now Williams?

BMW -> Sauber

[FourWheelDrift]

andyps said:

And isn't the other part of Shadow now Williams?

No Frank Williams Racing became Wolf Racing when bought into by Walter Wolf. Then when Frank left with Patrick they formed the new team, Williams Grand Prix Engineering.

[andyps]

FourWheelDrift said:

andyps said:

And isn't the other part of Shadow now Williams?

No Frank Williams Racing became Wolf Racing when bought into by Walter Wolf. Then when Frank left with Patrick they formed the new team, Williams Grand Prix Engineering.

Of course - not got my history head on correctly today! Couldn't remember the name when I was thinking it through. Was remembering black Wolf cars and thinking black and shadows.

[Nick M]

Ferrari -> the FIA (or whatever the governing body was called back then....)

[Athlon]

Did Stewart not grow from the ashes of Lotus?

[DiscoColin]

Athlon said:

Did Stewart not grow from the ashes of Lotus?

I do not believe so (though I don't know if they may have bought any assets of it). The way I remember it, Stewart was essentially Paul Stewart Racing moving up from F3000 to the big league with dad as head having secured a factory engine deal...

[FourWheelDrift]

Coloni Racing became Andrea Moda Formula
March Racing became Leyton House

[freedman]

Athlon said:

Did Stewart not grow from the ashes of Lotus?

No that was Pacific Grand Prix (David Hunt, James brother, had aquired the rights to Lotus by this time)

Edited by freedman on Sunday 12th October 18:50

[Athlon]

Ahh, thanks.

[Stack]

FourWheelDrift said:

Coloni Racing became Andrea Moda Formula
March Racing became Leyton House

& then Leyton House turned back into March again....

Onyx became Monteverdi

Osella became Fondmetal....

[marshalla]

Nick M said:

Ferrari -> the FIA (or whatever the governing body was called back then....)

-> Brabham (Ecclestone's old team seems to run the show)

[thunderbelmont]

freedman said:

Athlon said:

Did Stewart not grow from the ashes of Lotus?

No that was Pacific Grand Prix (David Hunt, James brother, had aquired the rights to Lotus by this time)

Edited by freedman on Sunday 12th October 18:50

Actually, Keith Wiggins' Pacific team and Lotus joined together for their conglomerate final season.

Lotus were shafted by Eddie Irvine's shunt which took Herbert out of the Italian GP's first start, rendering the car (the 109) with the "new" Honda V10 trashed, Herbert had to use the old car (107) with the horrid engine, and any chances of a decent result went down the drain, as did the much needed prize money that would have kept the team alive, and probably retained their sponsors. You could say that Eddie Irvine assasinated Lotus Grand Prix International. The very next day, the team was in adminstration and gone. Thanks Eddie.

There was hope that David Hunt was going to buy Arrows when TWR finally got found out and wended there way down the tubes big time, to obtain the entry, and thus bring the Lotus name back. How true that was, not sure. There was a fair bit of speculation in the media that he had enough money behind him to do it, but backed out because he could see it all going pear shaped!

Pacific lasted that one more season before they too pulled out before they went bust having scored no points in two seasons.

Yes, Stewart were a new team from the ground up. Bought by Ford, badged as Jaguar and destroyed by internal politics and Detroit meddling.

The only team in F1 that is owned and operated by the people who set it up is Williams.

I don't count Ferrari in there because The Old man set it up, and he is sadly no longer with us. If he were, I'm sure that both Max and the Bolt would have woken up with horses heads in their beds before now!

[Ferg]

thunderbelmont said:

Lotus were shafted by Eddie Irvine's shunt which took Herbert out of the Italian GP's first start, rendering the car (the 109) with the "new" Honda V10 trashed,

That moment is ingrained on my memory, along with Johnny's drive at Donington in the European GP (slightly overshaddowed by that Brazillian bloke, but only just )