FOTA and FIA agreement

[DangerousMike]

a few clues here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71638

strangely, it mentions standard KERS from 2010.

bit of a turnaround in my opinion.

I'd like to see teams developing their own drivetrains, using an engine and KERS, from scratch.

[Jungles]

It appears that the plan is to allow each team to develop their own KERS for 2009, and then perhaps the FIA and FOTA will choose one or a combination of designs to become standard for 2010+.

Edited by Jungles on Wednesday 22 October 08:24

[paulmurr]

Great money saving exercise then Lets get every team to develop their own KERS system at a cost of tens or possibly hundreds of millions of Euros, use them for a year, then throw the whole lot in the bin. Thats a brilliant way of helping Williams and Force India to survive.

Retards.

[Derek Smith]

paulmurr said:

Great money saving exercise then Lets get every team to develop their own KERS system at a cost of tens or possibly hundreds of millions of Euros, use them for a year, then throw the whole lot in the bin. Thats a brilliant way of helping Williams and Force India to survive.

Retards.

Remarkable.

[german tony]

The FIA needs to send clearer messages IMO - if the team's investment in KERS isn't going to pay off, why do it?

It's bad enough that the extra weight of the things seems to very neary cancel out the lap time advantage without having the thought in the background that all the work & investment's going to bve wasted too.

[profstoff]

So does that mean I should stop work on my standard engine tender?

[Nic Jones]

profstoff said:

So does that mean I should stop work on my standard engine tender?

I've already submitted plans for a BDA on twin 45's, so you'll have to come up with your own idea.

[Derek Smith]

german tony said:

The FIA needs to send clearer messages IMO - if the team's investment in KERS isn't going to pay off, why do it?

It's bad enough that the extra weight of the things seems to very neary cancel out the lap time advantage without having the thought in the background that all the work & investment's going to bve wasted too.

Why is there this fascination with something as pointless as KERS for racing cars? It is something the big manufacurers might want to develop but if Mosley gets his way, the manufacturers will disappear from F1. So why should F1 develop something that is no use to them but will be of benefit to the manufacturers? I thought the idea was to cut costs. Is there a despair smiley?

[profstoff]

Derek Smith said:

german tony said:

The FIA needs to send clearer messages IMO - if the team's investment in KERS isn't going to pay off, why do it?

It's bad enough that the extra weight of the things seems to very neary cancel out the lap time advantage without having the thought in the background that all the work & investment's going to bve wasted too.

Why is there this fascination with something as pointless as KERS for racing cars? It is something the big manufacurers might want to develop but if Mosley gets his way, the manufacturers will disappear from F1. So why should F1 develop something that is no use to them but will be of benefit to the manufacturers? I thought the idea was to cut costs. Is there a despair smiley?

I've posted before about the green lobby pointing their finger at F1 and working out the carbon footprint of a Grand Prix and I'm surprised it hasn't already happened. I see KERS as a way of F1 saying "look, not only are we taking steps to reduce the impact of the race itself but we're actively developing technology which will help towards greener motoring in the future"

Whether this is the point of it and whether it will achieve this I don't know but at least it can be seen to be doing something.

[thunderbelmont]

If it's the green lobby - why hasn't Herr Mosley changed the rules to use Bio-Ethanol then?

Perhaps they wouldn't be as welcome in the Middle East then....

[andyps]

I said on one of the other threads related to this that the waste through scrapping whatever most teams have developed for 2009 hardly fits with the cost saving theme. In addition for KERS as a principle, there does not need to be any relationship between road cars and F1, but for marketing promotion purposes some link is desirable. Toyota have a lead in KERS type technology for road cars through the Prius and the various Lexii hybrids, Honda are about to enter the market, others have cars in development - it is an area where they can differentiate for the road, and could build on F1 success for that differentiation, but now it won't be anything specific for them in how they use it, so similar to the standard engines the reasons for major manufacturers being involved are reduced.

[stew-S160]

i was told by someone at the weekend who works for a current F1 team, that the KERS systems(well, the electrical one) was still 'very' dangerous. so im not surprised they need time to make it work properly.

[andyps]

stew-S160 said:

i was told by someone at the weekend who works for a current F1 team, that the KERS systems(well, the electrical one) was still 'very' dangerous. so im not surprised they need time to make it work properly.

I am not sure that they are all going for the electrical storage system though are they? Also, from my interpretation of what came out of the meeting the teams will be able to use whatever they have developed for 2009 rather than discarding it now.

[skinny]

afaik, only williams are going for the super flywheel - everyone else is looking at batteries or super capacitors.

[andyps]

skinny said:

afaik, only williams are going for the super flywheel - everyone else is looking at batteries or super capacitors.

I know nothing, but am surprised that a team with customer engines would develop something different to that being considered by their engine supplier. Not saying you are wrong at all, just surprised.

[andyps]

Just thinking about the deal which apparently requires the engines to last for 3 races rather than 2, will that not mean that a fairly substantial amount of development and testing will have to take place before the 2009 season starts. And that also won't be cheap - cutting running costs but moving it to development.

[rude-boy]

andyps said:

skinny said:

afaik, only williams are going for the super flywheel - everyone else is looking at batteries or super capacitors.

I know nothing, but am surprised that a team with customer engines would develop something different to that being considered by their engine supplier. Not saying you are wrong at all, just surprised.

TBH it looks very sensible to me. What's the betting that there will be A LOT of data sharing between the two to work out which has the strongest advantages...

[skinny]

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/162694-0/n...

i guess toyota have to push with links to their electric storage in the prius road car, whereas williams are a competitor at the end of the day and looking for competitive advantage.

[jacobyte]

They should use elastic bands for KERS. No electric shocks, and available at very reasonable prices from WHSmith.

[Derek Smith]

andyps said:

Just thinking about the deal which apparently requires the engines to last for 3 races rather than 2, will that not mean that a fairly substantial amount of development and testing will have to take place before the 2009 season starts. And that also won't be cheap - cutting running costs but moving it to development.

Don't be stupid, Andy. Don't you think the FiA would have thought about that? The only way that could be true is if there was some sub plot to . . . hold on, better get back to you on that one.