If Senna had not died
Discussion
The question of the greatest F1 driver of all time often arises with the top 3 or even the top 10 containing the usual suspects .More often than not you will find Senna and Schumacher well up there .Michael holds pretty much all the records worth having and his on track ability was such that he is usually held as the benchmark by which all other drivers are measured.Not my personal no1 by a long shot but his record is hard to ignore,so ask yourselfs this,if Senna had not died how many WDC`S would Michael have taken.
I think Senna would have been champion in 1994&95,so then would Ferrari have thrown all of their weight behind Schuey believing he was the key to ultimate glory?
Senna could have taken the title again in 96 and maybe 97 and then quit .Ferrari by then may have considered Schumacher nothing but an also ran and looked elsewhere for talent (but I suspect not)remember they had not won since 1979 and now its going into 1998 .Makes you think.
In short Senna may have ended his career as a 7 time WDC leaving Hill Villeneuve and maybe even the great Michael Schumacher with nothing.
thoughts?
I think Senna would have been champion in 1994&95,so then would Ferrari have thrown all of their weight behind Schuey believing he was the key to ultimate glory?
Senna could have taken the title again in 96 and maybe 97 and then quit .Ferrari by then may have considered Schumacher nothing but an also ran and looked elsewhere for talent (but I suspect not)remember they had not won since 1979 and now its going into 1998 .Makes you think.
In short Senna may have ended his career as a 7 time WDC leaving Hill Villeneuve and maybe even the great Michael Schumacher with nothing.
thoughts?
Prior to Senna's death, I recall both Ayrton and Ferrari had expressed a desire to work together at some future date.
Had he lived, this intention may have resulted in him driving for the Scuderia in 1996. It must be pointed out however, that Senna would have been 36 at this point. Too late in his career to spearhead a time-consuming Ferrari revival?
I do believe he would have won the championship for Williams in 1994 had he lived as the car did improve over the course of the season. I maintain Schumacher would have run him very close, though.
Discussing the relative performance of Benetton / Williams in 1994, we have to consider the affect on the respective cars as a result of the various safety enhancements forced on the constructors by the FIA. Had Ayrton not crashed, these safety directives almost certainly would not have been imposed. In which case, would Benetton have maintained their early season handling advantage?
Questions, questions.....
Had he lived, this intention may have resulted in him driving for the Scuderia in 1996. It must be pointed out however, that Senna would have been 36 at this point. Too late in his career to spearhead a time-consuming Ferrari revival?
I do believe he would have won the championship for Williams in 1994 had he lived as the car did improve over the course of the season. I maintain Schumacher would have run him very close, though.
Discussing the relative performance of Benetton / Williams in 1994, we have to consider the affect on the respective cars as a result of the various safety enhancements forced on the constructors by the FIA. Had Ayrton not crashed, these safety directives almost certainly would not have been imposed. In which case, would Benetton have maintained their early season handling advantage?
Questions, questions.....
I think Senna would have given Schumacher a good battle for the 94 championship but wouldn't have won it. Senna got rattled by Schumacher's arrival and it has been noted that he feared him, he saw someone who was greater than himself.
I think his time as a championship winner was over after the 1991 season ended.
I think his time as a championship winner was over after the 1991 season ended.
absolutely said:
I think Senna would have given Schumacher a good battle for the 94 championship but wouldn't have won it. Senna got rattled by Schumacher's arrival and it has been noted that he feared him, he saw someone who was greater than himself.
I think his time as a championship winner was over after the 1991 season ended.
Are you kidding me? Senna had outstanding seasons in both '92 and '93 in less-than-competitive machinery; his driving was as good as ever. If Hill could run Schumacher close in 94 and 95 then Senna would have comfortably won both titles. If he'd have continued at Williams then the 96 and 97 titles would have been shoe-ins.I think his time as a championship winner was over after the 1991 season ended.
kusee pee said:
absolutely said:
I think Senna would have given Schumacher a good battle for the 94 championship but wouldn't have won it. Senna got rattled by Schumacher's arrival and it has been noted that he feared him, he saw someone who was greater than himself.
I think his time as a championship winner was over after the 1991 season ended.
Are you kidding me? Senna had outstanding seasons in both '92 and '93 in less-than-competitive machinery; his driving was as good as ever. If Hill could run Schumacher close in 94 and 95 then Senna would have comfortably won both titles. If he'd have continued at Williams then the 96 and 97 titles would have been shoe-ins.I think his time as a championship winner was over after the 1991 season ended.
If Senna was still at Williams for 96 and 97 he would have to be the favourite for the title in back to back years. Well if Jacques and Damon could do it then surely Ayrton could have. But has Murray used to say. 'F1' is 'IF' spelt backwards
Edited by chrisfoxon on Thursday 23 October 21:39
Senna was oft quoted as saying that on the last lap of the last race he did in F1 before he retired, he could see no other car to be in than a Ferrari. Whether this would have been borne out I think would depend on the relative performance of the vehicle when he chose to retire, but it's a nice thought.
The two drivers had a similar outlook in many ways. They both took drivers out in order to win a championship and both refused to have competative team mates. But they were very different in other ways. All Senna needed was the car. Schuey needed the team.
To a great extent Scheuy's success was down to Brawn, Byrne and the rest. He was a member of a team. Whether he would have made it without them is open to discussion but not to a conclusion. Senna was different. With him it was always 'I'.
I also cannot see Senna following the corporate route of Schuey.
But both had a phenominal conceit and in later life Senna seemed to go all religious, something we were spared with Schuey.
If Senna had not died we would have been spared the Ferrari domination. And we would probably have been talking about it now.
To a great extent Scheuy's success was down to Brawn, Byrne and the rest. He was a member of a team. Whether he would have made it without them is open to discussion but not to a conclusion. Senna was different. With him it was always 'I'.
I also cannot see Senna following the corporate route of Schuey.
But both had a phenominal conceit and in later life Senna seemed to go all religious, something we were spared with Schuey.
If Senna had not died we would have been spared the Ferrari domination. And we would probably have been talking about it now.
magic torch said:
absolutely said:
he saw someone who was greater than himself
wtf?!??I think he quite rightly saw a cheat.
I think they would have had some good battles and this may have opened up the title for a third party as they took each other off a few times. Senna would probably have the edge in qualifying but Schumacher and his team were great at strategy during a race.
Derek Smith said:
The two drivers had a similar outlook in many ways. They both took drivers out in order to win a championship and both refused to have competative team mates. But they were very different in other ways. All Senna needed was the car. Schuey needed the team.
To a great extent Scheuy's success was down to Brawn, Byrne and the rest. He was a member of a team. Whether he would have made it without them is open to discussion but not to a conclusion. Senna was different. With him it was always 'I'.
I also cannot see Senna following the corporate route of Schuey.
But both had a phenominal conceit and in later life Senna seemed to go all religious, something we were spared with Schuey.
If Senna had not died we would have been spared the Ferrari domination. And we would probably have been talking about it now.
We're talking about F1 here, right? To mention a less distinguishing characteristic, it is not possible. To a great extent Scheuy's success was down to Brawn, Byrne and the rest. He was a member of a team. Whether he would have made it without them is open to discussion but not to a conclusion. Senna was different. With him it was always 'I'.
I also cannot see Senna following the corporate route of Schuey.
But both had a phenominal conceit and in later life Senna seemed to go all religious, something we were spared with Schuey.
If Senna had not died we would have been spared the Ferrari domination. And we would probably have been talking about it now.
Derek Smith said:
The two drivers had a similar outlook in many ways. They both took drivers out in order to win a championship and both refused to have competative team mates. But they were very different in other ways. All Senna needed was the car. Schuey needed the team.
.
'Both refused competetive team mates', So Senna didnt have prost as a team mate?.
And whilst Warwick may have beeen an improvement on Dumfries he was hardly going to trouble Senna was he.
Lest we forget also Prost decided to take Senna out in Japan to win a championship, sure it was less spectacular than Senna or Schumachers moves. It was however no less pre ordained (Of course the FIA then stepped in and made sure Senna couldnt win the title that season)
greygoose said:
magic torch said:
absolutely said:
he saw someone who was greater than himself
wtf?!??I think he quite rightly saw a cheat.
I think they would have had some good battles and this may have opened up the title for a third party as they took each other off a few times. Senna would probably have the edge in qualifying but Schumacher and his team were great at strategy during a race.
Senna went to Prost's team and beat him. Yes, Honda were probably more biased to him, but still more impressive than anything MS did IMO.
To say Senna saw someone greater is ludicrous.
freedman said:
Derek Smith said:
The two drivers had a similar outlook in many ways. They both took drivers out in order to win a championship and both refused to have competative team mates. But they were very different in other ways. All Senna needed was the car. Schuey needed the team.
.
'Both refused competetive team mates', So Senna didnt have prost as a team mate?.
And whilst Warwick may have beeen an improvement on Dumfries he was hardly going to trouble Senna was he.
Lest we forget also Prost decided to take Senna out in Japan to win a championship, sure it was less spectacular than Senna or Schumachers moves. It was however no less pre ordained (Of course the FIA then stepped in and made sure Senna couldnt win the title that season)
However, his stint at McLaren with Prost was, I felt at the time, an attempt to clear the last 'hurdle'. There were two camps: Prost or Senna as the world's no 1. A lot of the press supported Prost despite the evidence to the contrary, like the first lap at Donington.
The odd thing was that the time when the media seemed to drift towards Senna was when Prost won the championship after Senna was disqualifed for leaving the circuit at Suzuka after being driven into by Prost.
My feelings were that Senna was the best driver of recent times but he does not deserve the beatification that he's received after his death. He played dirty on circuit although I don't believe he cheated like, say, with traction control as others did. That's just a bit better than Schuey and a bit more better than Prost. But only just. Those were priviledged time for fans. It's just a shame Ferrari had to spoil it all.
But none of the three, although in the top 7, are at the top of my all time greats list.
Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff