F1 is not sustainable in its current guise...

[stew-S160]

That's what is used as reason for changes coming in F1. I have to ask, when was F1 ever non changing? When was it ever the same for a 'long' period of time?

So what if it's not sustainable in its current guise, it's always changing so why the hell do we need these stupid new proposals like a spec engine?

[Scuffers]

could not agree more....

just as an example, if they want to cut costs and increase the grids, why not have 3 car teams?

all the teams have more than 2 cars now, and running a 3rd does not cost much (compared to the first 2) and you have the potential for more sponsorship/diver funding..

this then get's us a 30 car grid without any huge inventments required.

[philis]

I smell a rat, i think its a some sort of plan hatched by the dwarf and the nazi to devalue the sport so they can benefit somehow, wouldnt be be the firts time they have done it.

Seems funny how the owner of f1 has just priced the british gp - silverstone out of the picture. Then the next thing we know the sport is not sustainable because of high costs.
Why not share the wealth abit more.
Friggin muppets.

[DWP]

Would one be off course to suggest that a certain Italian team may win the contract to provide engines. Surely that isn't the answer is it?

[odyssey2200]

DWP said:

Would one be off course to suggest that a certain Italian team may win the contract to provide engines. Surely that isn't the answer is it?

If that happens I can't see

McLaren
Toyota
Honda
Renault
Williams

sticking around.

Unless it's all a scam to put pressure on the teams.

People like Mercedes, Toyota and Honda put millions into their racing and how many would just walk away?

McLaren and Williams are more or less solely dedicated to F1 and what would they do if they did not do F1?

I hope that FOSA tell stumpy and Nazi to fk off and start their own series.

[Derek Smith]

odyssey2200 said:

DWP said:

Would one be off course to suggest that a certain Italian team may win the contract to provide engines. Surely that isn't the answer is it?

If that happens I can't see

McLaren
Toyota
Honda
Renault
Williams

sticking around.

Unless it's all a scam to put pressure on the teams.

People like Mercedes, Toyota and Honda put millions into their racing and how many would just walk away?

McLaren and Williams are more or less solely dedicated to F1 and what would they do if they did not do F1?

I hope that FOSA tell stumpy and Nazi to fk off and start their own series.

Frank Williams won't be around the grid for that much longer. His first GP was in 1973. Mercedes own the majority of McLaren and if they decide to pull out of F1 then Ron will go with them.

Toyota are haemorrhaging profits and I can’t see them taking on other costs. Mind you, I can’t see them keeping up their present investment.

BMW might want to stay given how they are coming along nicely at the moment but Renault? Honda are struggling and can’t be getting that much out of F1 given how much it is costing them. If Toyota pull the plug then they might go with them without losing face.

If Mosley wanted to remove the manufacturers from F1 then I can’t think of a better way of doing it than the way he’s going about it now.

I’m no big fan of the car giants in F1 but then the last few season have given us some magic racing – FiAsco decisions aside of course – and I think they should be allowed to come and go. F1 will survive without them as it has in the past but my worry is that I’m not sure it will survive such crass interference. What Mosley is proposing is massive change for next year, after the changes to 2008, then followed by the biggest change ever to F1 for 2010. Can you imagine the board meeting where the question comes up: And what changes are in the pipeline for 2011? It’s all very well saying that this is a new Concord Agreement but Mosley has never seen such an agreement applying to him.

But the image of the sport as the pinnacle has taken a spanking recently. Not only was Mosleygate a massive hit but Allen Don Eel-like’s manipulation of the results is absolutely beyond the pale. With the recession on top of that, plus the scandalous rise in costs, they have to be silly to continue.

I think it is much more likely that the manufacturers will clear off and start their own series, taking the money, the sponsors and probably the drivers with them.

[groomi]

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500. Their brand is strong enough to move to other disciplines such as ALMS where there does seem an opportunity to be creative. They also have a road car of their own in the pipeline, so could perhaps manage without F1.

Williams on the other hand would do well to sell up while the price is right. Not that I want to see them shut up shop.

[stew-S160]

groomi said:

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500. Their brand is strong enough to move to other disciplines such as ALMS where there does seem an opportunity to be creative. They also have a road car of their own in the pipeline, so could perhaps manage without F1.

Williams on the other hand would do well to sell up while the price is right. Not that I want to see them shut up shop.

there is talk of Williams creating their own junior series. which i imagine would be quite good considering the Williams team.

[zac510]

stew-S160 said:

there is talk of Williams creating their own junior series. which i imagine would be quite good considering the Williams team.

Formula 2? They're already doing it.

[freedman]

groomi said:

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500.

.

That was McLaren under Bruce and latterly Teddy Mayer, not the modern version of McLaren

[El Guapo]

DWP said:

Would one be off course to suggest that a certain Italian team may win the contract to provide engines?

Yes, well off course. Ferrari would have nothing to gain from such an arrangement.

Derek Smith said:

If Mosley wanted to remove the manufacturers from F1 then I can’t think of a better way of doing it than the way he’s going about it now.

If Mosley's hare-brained single engine plan is a belated 'screw you' to the manufacturers for threatening a break-away series in the past then it could backfire very badly.
All the engine makers except Ferrari would simply walk away from the current series and set up their own.

[groomi]

freedman said:

groomi said:

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500.

.

That was McLaren under Bruce and latterly Teddy Mayer, not the modern version of McLaren

Doesn't matter. The 'Brand' has the history of competing in other series, which will make it more plausible to swap around if necessary.

[zac510]

Except basically none of those series exist anymore..

You'd think they're making good use of their factory and resources by building a performance road car for profit. That, and a motorsport business model like Lola or Dallara would be the future for McLaren after F1.

[Derek Smith]

Out walking my dog today I met up with a teacher, science and some other subjects, at our local secondary school. Our conversation got round to F1, Mosley and KERS. He expressed the opinion that KERS it was a waste of time even in its original format but with one supplier it's less than useless. I asked him how F1 could reduce its carbon tyre print. His answer was to stop going out of Europe. He reckons that would halve its global warming pollution. Lots of argument and discussion and I left convinced. The 50% is a bit of a guess but what is true is that it would be a substantial reduction.

[odyssey2200]

Derek Smith said:

Out walking my dog today I met up with a teacher, science and some other subjects, at our local secondary school. Our conversation got round to F1, Mosley and KERS. He expressed the opinion that KERS it was a waste of time even in its original format but with one supplier it's less than useless. I asked him how F1 could reduce its carbon tyre print. His answer was to stop going out of Europe. He reckons that would halve its global warming pollution. Lots of argument and discussion and I left convinced. The 50% is a bit of a guess but what is true is that it would be a substantial reduction.

So stopping F1 all together would reduce carbon tyre print to zero.

Assuming the Co2 is a global warming gas and MMGW actually exists.

[profstoff]

freedman said:

groomi said:

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500.

.

That was McLaren under Bruce and latterly Teddy Mayer, not the modern version of McLaren

But under the current management, they have competed at Le Mans, and so have Mercedes. A move in this direction would suit both parties.

[flemke]

profstoff said:

freedman said:

groomi said:

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500.

.

That was McLaren under Bruce and latterly Teddy Mayer, not the modern version of McLaren

But under the current management, they have competed at Le Mans, and so have Mercedes. A move in this direction would suit both parties.

The problem is that Le Mans, and sports car racing generally, don't have a fraction of the exposure and public image of F1. You wouldn't believe how little sponsors pay for prime space on an FIA GT car, relative to the cost of similar real estate in F1. Does FIA GT have prime tv coverage anywhere?
When McLaren competed at Le Mans, it was a marginal factory effort. My guess is that their entire '95 LM/BPR budget - which was funded by its customers, not corporate sponsors - was less than what McL spent that year on IT. For example, the GTR race car spent a grand total of two days in the wind tunnel.

[anonymous-user]

flemke said:

profstoff said:

freedman said:

groomi said:

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500.

.

That was McLaren under Bruce and latterly Teddy Mayer, not the modern version of McLaren

But under the current management, they have competed at Le Mans, and so have Mercedes. A move in this direction would suit both parties.

The problem is that Le Mans, and sports car racing generally, don't have a fraction of the exposure and public image of F1. You wouldn't believe how little sponsors pay for prime space on an FIA GT car, relative to the cost of similar real estate in F1. Does FIA GT have prime tv coverage anywhere?
When McLaren competed at Le Mans, it was a marginal factory effort. My guess is that their entire '95 LM/BPR budget - which was funded by its customers, not corporate sponsors - was less than what McL spent that year on IT. For example, the GTR race car spent a grand total of two days in the wind tunnel.

F1 was once like that though, so using the current spend levels in a series as a basis for future discussion is a bit of a nonsense if all the big players decide they will switch discipline.

If they did abandon F1 and went sportscar racing, the TV would follow, as would the fan base. What people want to see is competitive motorsport with the best engineers and drivers in the world, if that happens to be sportscars and it's packaged correctly it will be just as popular as F1 currently is.

[Derek Smith]

johnfelstead said:

flemke said:

profstoff said:

freedman said:

groomi said:

McLaren used to compete in Cam Am, F5000 and maybe even the Indy 500.

.

That was McLaren under Bruce and latterly Teddy Mayer, not the modern version of McLaren

But under the current management, they have competed at Le Mans, and so have Mercedes. A move in this direction would suit both parties.

The problem is that Le Mans, and sports car racing generally, don't have a fraction of the exposure and public image of F1. You wouldn't believe how little sponsors pay for prime space on an FIA GT car, relative to the cost of similar real estate in F1. Does FIA GT have prime tv coverage anywhere?
When McLaren competed at Le Mans, it was a marginal factory effort. My guess is that their entire '95 LM/BPR budget - which was funded by its customers, not corporate sponsors - was less than what McL spent that year on IT. For example, the GTR race car spent a grand total of two days in the wind tunnel.

F1 was once like that though, so using the current spend levels in a series as a basis for future discussion is a bit of a nonsense if all the big players decide they will switch discipline.

If they did abandon F1 and went sportscar racing, the TV would follow, as would the fan base. What people want to see is competitive motorsport with the best engineers and drivers in the world, if that happens to be sportscars and it's packaged correctly it will be just as popular as F1 currently is.

It is all down to terrestrial TV coverage, isn't it. If it's covered and hyped, it's successful. Most people are not F1 fans, they are fans of what is talked about in the office on Monday. And if it is on TV then the cost of advertising rises. If the rumours about the attack on The Times being the cause of the revelations about Mosley enjoying beating women then that other Murdoch media outlet, Sky, might well broadcast a formula to run against Mosley's F1. Well all be on freesat soon enough.

[zac510]

Actually the FIA GT got a bit of a run live on ITV4 this year but it wasn't hugely publicised.