Eco Racing

[Mr Gear]

Some call it a contradiction in terms... this is not your thread. I like racing measured in gallons per mile too, but for the sake of an idea, how about this:

The only rule governing the structure of the cars (bar safety rules) is that they are given 1 gallon of control fuel to cover a 30, 40 or 50 mile race. This pre-determines the maximum fuel consumption of any vehicle involved and thus creates a level playing field.

It should create an interesting battle of tactical driving and technology, and we'd all benefit from faster more economical cars as consumers in the long run.

[Galileo]

Wasn't F1 like this in the 70's when they weren't allowed to have pitstops and had a certain size fuel tank? The more economical the car and driver, the less fuel they had to carry around the track.

[Mr Gear]

Galileo said:

Wasn't F1 like this in the 70's when they weren't allowed to have pitstops and had a certain size fuel tank? The more economical the car and driver, the less fuel they had to carry around the track.

Was F1 good in the 70's? Sorry, I wasn't there.

(Serious question)

[anonymous-user]

Mr Gear said:

Galileo said:

Wasn't F1 like this in the 70's when they weren't allowed to have pitstops and had a certain size fuel tank? The more economical the car and driver, the less fuel they had to carry around the track.

Was F1 good in the 70's? Sorry, I wasn't there.

(Serious question)

the cars were fast and noisy, the circuits free from man made chicanes, it was a race from start to finish, team orders was something given to the waiter at the resturant on the sunday night, there were often grids of 25 cars plus and the drivers had awesome facial hair.

sadly lots of talented drivers were killed as safety was not the highest priority...

[kevin ritson]

You're thinking of the rules in the later turbo years - fixed fuel tank size, no refuelling. The '80s were seen as a golden age of the sport...

[skinny]

think lemans did this for a bit too? before my time tho.

i think it's the way to go. much better than restricting fuel flow, which is unneccesarily complicated. just give them a certain amount of fuel for the race. whoever uses it the best has the advantage!

[Mr Gear]

skinny said:

think lemans did this for a bit too? before my time tho.

i think it's the way to go. much better than restricting fuel flow, which is unneccesarily complicated. just give them a certain amount of fuel for the race. whoever uses it the best has the advantage!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who see it like that.

It got me thinking because MOTO GP theoretically has a max fuel consumption because there is a limit to the tank size and no refuelling, but in practice, it's extremely generous, and tyre wear is if anything the controlling factor. However, a control amount of fuel could make for some very interesting edge-of-the seat racing as tactics become extremely important.

[paulmurr]

MotoGP are like this currently. Seems to work well

[Mr Gear]

paulmurr said:

MotoGP are like this currently. Seems to work well

^ We both said it at the same time

[mattikake]

kevin ritson said:

You're thinking of the rules in the later turbo years - fixed fuel tank size, no refuelling. The '80s were seen as a golden age of the sport...

Totally.

Fuel management adds strategy, forces smothness of style and mechanical sympathy. The racing was far better and more varied lap to lap than the artificial (and st) means by refuelling today.

[Galileo]

kevin ritson said:

You're thinking of the rules in the later turbo years - fixed fuel tank size, no refuelling. The '80s were seen as a golden age of the sport...

Yes, your right, I was thinking of the late turbo era. Good old days. Small wings, Big slicks,.....

[Galileo]

Mr Gear said:

Galileo said:

Wasn't F1 like this in the 70's when they weren't allowed to have pitstops and had a certain size fuel tank? The more economical the car and driver, the less fuel they had to carry around the track.

Was F1 good in the 70's? Sorry, I wasn't there.

(Serious question)

Yes it was, but the TV coverage was crap.

[bordseye]

but if you remove fuel stops, you will remove the only chance that they have to overtake since all cars are so equal these days

[Mr Gear]

bordseye said:

but if you remove fuel stops, you will remove the only chance that they have to overtake since all cars are so equal these days

The overtaking will come from some drivers choosing to make a slow start and a charge at the finish, and others trying to get an early lead and then coast across the finish line.

[Scuffers]

Mr Gear said:

bordseye said:

but if you remove fuel stops, you will remove the only chance that they have to overtake since all cars are so equal these days

The overtaking will come from some drivers choosing to make a slow start and a charge at the finish, and others trying to get an early lead and then coast across the finish line.

What he said ^^^^

ther were some of the best races ever, the last 10 laps were manic, between who had enough fuel left to fight/defend

[SamHH]

Mr Gear said:

The overtaking will come from some drivers choosing to make a slow start and a charge at the finish, and others trying to get an early lead and then coast across the finish line.

My feeling is that it wouldn't be like 1980's F1, when the fuel consumption calculations were relatively primitive. If you look at MotoGP they're able to precisely calculate fuel consumption and set the engine management to use just enough fuel. The bike is also able to continuously monitor fuel usage and adjust the engine management towards the end of the race if it looks like it's going to run out; it's out of the riders' hands.

Edited by SamHH on Thursday 27th November 09:57

[Mr Gear]

SamHH said:

Mr Gear said:

The overtaking will come from some drivers choosing to make a slow start and a charge at the finish, and others trying to get an early lead and then coast across the finish line.

My feeling is that it wouldn't be like 1980's F1, when the fuel consumption calculations were relatively primitive. If you look at MotoGP they're able to precisely calculate fuel consumption and set the engine management to use just enough fuel. The bike is also able to continuously monitor fuel usage and adjust the engine management towards the end of the race if it looks like it's going to run out; it's out of the riders' hands.

Edited by SamHH on Thursday 27th November 09:57

But Moto GP has been good this year, and although what you said may well be true, it is still up to the rider if they want to give it gas at the beginning of the race or save that luxury for later.

[SamHH]

Mr Gear said:

But Moto GP has been good this year, and although what you said may well be true, it is still up to the rider if they want to give it gas at the beginning of the race or save that luxury for later.

MotoGP was good, albeit not fantastic this year, but I don't think that was because because of limited fuel capacity. I'd say I'm a moderately clued-up viewer, and it was never apparent to me that the riders had strategies for how to use their fuel or that they were adjusting their speed in order not to run out. From what I've read the computers do that for them.

Edited by SamHH on Thursday 27th November 11:16

[skinny]

computer simulations will very quickly and quite easily determine the quickest way to get to the end of the race. but by restricting the amount of fuel and opening up avenues for genuine innovation, it could be a very good thing. far too sensible for the FIA tho.

[Mr Gear]

skinny said:

computer simulations will very quickly and quite easily determine the quickest way to get to the end of the race. but by restricting the amount of fuel and opening up avenues for genuine innovation, it could be a very good thing. far too sensible for the FIA tho.

As I said earlier, it is not really much of a hinderance to Moto GP- you do see concious efforts to protect tyres playing into strategy to much the same effect though.

What I am talking about would be a saloon car race series with very harsh fuel consumption limits. Although it would be interesting to see how this would affect something like F1 too of course.