Ultimate Race Track
Discussion
phatgixer said:
Kurgen said:
It exists, but F1 don't race there anymore..
(close to Adenau)!
I disagree. It is a unique challenge and very exciting, but as a track it is all about the circuit and not dicing / racing IMHO.(close to Adenau)!
That'd be close and exciting!RobM77 said:
Imagine a three lap race for a one make series there That'd be close and exciting!
Such races are run in the week leading up to the 24hr, and in the ones I have seen the cars are spread out quite early on. But that could be due to many drivers not knowing the Ring well enough to make it a level playing field. That'd be close and exciting!jacobyte said:
RobM77 said:
Imagine a three lap race for a one make series there That'd be close and exciting!
Such races are run in the week leading up to the 24hr, and in the ones I have seen the cars are spread out quite early on. But that could be due to many drivers not knowing the Ring well enough to make it a level playing field. That'd be close and exciting!
That probably is the case, yes. To be honest I kind of prefer that to what we have now, where everyone in a race knows every millimetre of the race track. It's more in the spirit of the original road races like Pescara etc.The racing on the NS can't be as close as it is on a "normal" circuit, even when the drivers know the circuit cold.
The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
flemke said:
The racing on the NS can't be as close as it is on a "normal" circuit, even when the drivers know the circuit cold.
The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
Wider than Cadwell Park though? I'd say comparable to somewhere like Brands or parts of the present Donny (Craner Curves?). Not sure why the camber would affect the actual racing? You're right about the run off though - there is absolutely none!The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
One other possible reason that I just thought of is the number of "straights" at the Nurburgring. For instance, if you come onto the throttle just a second earlier out of the Hatzenbach you're going to carry that advantage all the way down to Aremberg basically! Same thing coming out of Berwerk on the run up to the Karousell. Tighter circuits tend to keep the cars together more maybe?
RobM77 said:
flemke said:
The racing on the NS can't be as close as it is on a "normal" circuit, even when the drivers know the circuit cold.
The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
Wider than Cadwell Park though? I'd say comparable to somewhere like Brands or parts of the present Donny (Craner Curves?). Not sure why the camber would affect the actual racing? You're right about the run off though - there is absolutely none!The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
One other possible reason that I just thought of is the number of "straights" at the Nurburgring. For instance, if you come onto the throttle just a second earlier out of the Hatzenbach you're going to carry that advantage all the way down to Aremberg basically! Same thing coming out of Berwerk on the run up to the Karousell. Tighter circuits tend to keep the cars together more maybe?
The example you give is a good one. At the end of that long straight into Schwedenkreuz, it's possible to take the blind left-hand crest with a blocking move on the inside. Say you do that. Anybody who's trying to overtake you would have to come around your right side. The crest there is off-camber.
It is a fact that they used to race F1 cars there, at a time when the circuit was even more diabolical than it is today. Unlike today, however, at that time the drivers respected and treated each other properly.
flemke said:
RobM77 said:
flemke said:
The racing on the NS can't be as close as it is on a "normal" circuit, even when the drivers know the circuit cold.
The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
Wider than Cadwell Park though? I'd say comparable to somewhere like Brands or parts of the present Donny (Craner Curves?). Not sure why the camber would affect the actual racing? You're right about the run off though - there is absolutely none!The track is too narrow, a lot of it is off-camber, and there are almost no runoff areas.
It's true that occasionally the top guys will briefly go at it hammer-and-tongs, but they're in RSRs and the like. By comparison, the action in a Supercup race (that is, with similar cars to RSRs, and some of the same drivers) is non-stop and frenetic. That will never happen on the NS.
One other possible reason that I just thought of is the number of "straights" at the Nurburgring. For instance, if you come onto the throttle just a second earlier out of the Hatzenbach you're going to carry that advantage all the way down to Aremberg basically! Same thing coming out of Berwerk on the run up to the Karousell. Tighter circuits tend to keep the cars together more maybe?
The example you give is a good one. At the end of that long straight into Schwedenkreuz, it's possible to take the blind left-hand crest with a blocking move on the inside. Say you do that. Anybody who's trying to overtake you would have to come around your right side. The crest there is off-camber.
It is a fact that they used to race F1 cars there, at a time when the circuit was even more diabolical than it is today. Unlike today, however, at that time the drivers respected and treated each other properly.
I think (hope) that respect for other drivers comes as a function of the danger of a track/corner, and overtaking moves have become more risky now mainly because F1 is much safer than it was in the 1960s and 70s.
There's also an element of aerodynamics in it as well of course - we're told that one has to stay quite a way back when following an F1 car through corners and the moves we tend to get are therefore quite desperate sometimes; but let's hope next year's regs will change that.
MrKipling43 said:
RobM77 said:
I think overtaking moves have become more risky now mainly because F1 is much safer than it was in the 1960s and 70s.
I reckon you're dead-on with that. If they all had to drive in polo shirts and leather helmets, I suspect you'd see them being much more cautious. It was a completely different sport back then. For starters everyone knew each other and there wasn't the corporate might involved. Secondly, the risk of dying was sadly so much greater - it wasn't just something that remained a possibility and you blanked out, people really were getting killed all the time. Jackie Stewart, whose career spanned that era, lost a huge number of his close friends and colleagues through motor racing - I think the number was something astounding like 57?freedman said:
The shape of the circuit, seen at time index 0:12 looks interesting. Ooo err.It's gotta be the Nordschleife, or old school Hockenheim. Blasting down the narrow track at 200mph with your rival right beside you bashing wheels and trading paint would really separate the men from the boys, yet Bernie & Max's (non Nazi, of course) goons muscled in and made Hockenheim a bit of a wuss circuit. Re-lay the old track and have some proper racing again!
How come the Germans can make such excellent race tracks? Nordschelife, Hockenheim, the list goes on.
But of the modern day GP circuits, the best is Spa, even if somebody (god forbid) actually uses the health and safety run off zone that the FIA insist on putting there to ruin not just Spa, but all F1 tracks. Would have been interesting to see what Lewis would have done if there WAS a wall there (sorry don't want to open this can of worms again) anyway back on topic.
The problem is proper driver's circuits just don't exist these days, with the exception of the Nordschleife which has been unaltered. Putting a thousand miles of health and safety zones around every corner may make the racing more safe, but I would have thought that a modern day F1 car is tough enough to survive some nasty impacts (like Heikki's smash at Catalunya this year. The sense of speed is enhanced when you're driving between some unbelievably close objects. Don't believe me? Drive flat out down a single track road then do the same on a motorway. So the driver is having less fun and therefore we don't see the exciting racing we all want.
How come the Germans can make such excellent race tracks? Nordschelife, Hockenheim, the list goes on.
But of the modern day GP circuits, the best is Spa, even if somebody (god forbid) actually uses the health and safety run off zone that the FIA insist on putting there to ruin not just Spa, but all F1 tracks. Would have been interesting to see what Lewis would have done if there WAS a wall there (sorry don't want to open this can of worms again) anyway back on topic.
The problem is proper driver's circuits just don't exist these days, with the exception of the Nordschleife which has been unaltered. Putting a thousand miles of health and safety zones around every corner may make the racing more safe, but I would have thought that a modern day F1 car is tough enough to survive some nasty impacts (like Heikki's smash at Catalunya this year. The sense of speed is enhanced when you're driving between some unbelievably close objects. Don't believe me? Drive flat out down a single track road then do the same on a motorway. So the driver is having less fun and therefore we don't see the exciting racing we all want.
dpbird90 said:
It's gotta be the Nordschleife, or old school Hockenheim. Blasting down the narrow track at 200mph with your rival right beside you bashing wheels and trading paint would really separate the men from the boys, yet Bernie & Max's (non Nazi, of course) goons muscled in and made Hockenheim a bit of a wuss circuit. Re-lay the old track and have some proper racing again!
How come the Germans can make such excellent race tracks? Nordschelife, Hockenheim, the list goes on.
But of the modern day GP circuits, the best is Spa, even if somebody (god forbid) actually uses the health and safety run off zone that the FIA insist on putting there to ruin not just Spa, but all F1 tracks. Would have been interesting to see what Lewis would have done if there WAS a wall there (sorry don't want to open this can of worms again) anyway back on topic.
The problem is proper driver's circuits just don't exist these days, with the exception of the Nordschleife which has been unaltered. Putting a thousand miles of health and safety zones around every corner may make the racing more safe, but I would have thought that a modern day F1 car is tough enough to survive some nasty impacts (like Heikki's smash at Catalunya this year. The sense of speed is enhanced when you're driving between some unbelievably close objects. Don't believe me? Drive flat out down a single track road then do the same on a motorway. So the driver is having less fun and therefore we don't see the exciting racing we all want.
Firstly, regarding the Hamilton/Raikonnen incident at Spa I think it would have changed the way that they both drove. The overtaking manouvre might not have happened and the block might not have done either.How come the Germans can make such excellent race tracks? Nordschelife, Hockenheim, the list goes on.
But of the modern day GP circuits, the best is Spa, even if somebody (god forbid) actually uses the health and safety run off zone that the FIA insist on putting there to ruin not just Spa, but all F1 tracks. Would have been interesting to see what Lewis would have done if there WAS a wall there (sorry don't want to open this can of worms again) anyway back on topic.
The problem is proper driver's circuits just don't exist these days, with the exception of the Nordschleife which has been unaltered. Putting a thousand miles of health and safety zones around every corner may make the racing more safe, but I would have thought that a modern day F1 car is tough enough to survive some nasty impacts (like Heikki's smash at Catalunya this year. The sense of speed is enhanced when you're driving between some unbelievably close objects. Don't believe me? Drive flat out down a single track road then do the same on a motorway. So the driver is having less fun and therefore we don't see the exciting racing we all want.
Regarding safety on race tracks, firstly F1 is still dangerous depending on the nature of the impact (remember Hakinnen's big one? Schumie broke his legs only a few years ago too), and secondly the tracks aren't only used by Formula One. My own racing car is not made of super tough carbon fibre and I don't have a world class medical team seconds away from me. When I'm hammering round a corner in a spidery construction of metal and fibreglass I'd rather know that if something breaks on the car, some idiot locks wheels with me and launches me into the air, or I make an innocent mistake; that I'll end up a bit shaken and making excuses to the pit crew, rather than being airlifted to the nearest hospital... I love the Nurburgring and I love motor racing, but unecessary danger is something we could all do without.
as anyone seen the GT track in Argentina, it looks awesome, http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8... how come F1 gets crap like singapore nad bahrain and they get stuff like this?...
was it this track?
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44700&a...
unfortunately the video looks like it has been put together by marketing men so you can't see the track whatsoever, instead it's just vacuous puke-inducing flashy advertising borrocks.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44700&a...
unfortunately the video looks like it has been put together by marketing men so you can't see the track whatsoever, instead it's just vacuous puke-inducing flashy advertising borrocks.
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