There has to be some fall-out from the....

[phumy]

Financial crisis in the world which will affect motorsport, sponsors are the first ones to start to retract and pull out, where will this leave the teams and the competition.

Anyone think this will affect F1, as these teams dont have bottomless pits?

[Marc W]

I imagine it will affect F1 is some way. it's definately already affecting national motorsport. I know quite a few drivers and they are all saying its become extremely hard to find sponsorship now.

[Mat Hammond]

Read my lips... (how?) lol..

The crisis is going to kill many teams in F1 and below. I would not be surprised if BMW don't start the season in 2009.

BTW I hope BMW do make the grid in 2009.

GM, Ford, Chrysler are on the edge, Toyota are having trouble and rest assured Mercedes (as per BMW) have stopped selling cars.

These Motorsport budgets are going to be cut BIG time, just look at the Olympics money not being paid now.

V sad

[MrKipling43]

Mat Hammond said:

Stuff.

The manufacturers are not that short-sighted. All of them have poured hundreds of millions of pounds into their racing efforts, and they're not going to pull out at the first sign of a rough patch without a Championship or at least a race win to their names. Also, in times of 'economic difficulties' manufacturer-supported motor racing is a good way to keep the company brand prominent in a non-intrusive fashion. It means companies like BMW and Mercedes and Honda and Toyota will be at the forefront of peoples' minds when things start to look up.

They also have contractual obligation to remain in the sport - both to Bernie, the FIA and their sponsors - the penalties for which will be enormous beyond your wildest exagerations.

Edited by MrKipling43 on Thursday 4th December 16:16

[phumy]

But contracts are worthless if there are no pennies in the purse.

[MrKipling43]

phumy said:

But contracts are worthless if there are no pennies in the purse.

Contracts are rarely worthless. Even when there is 'no money in the purse' there will always be money to be found to stop companies going to court.

Think of the F1 Sponsors: RBS, ING, Marlboro, Petrobras, Shell - they can always find a few quid if they absolutely have to.

[phumy]

The sponsors will be feeling the same problems the teams are, they'll be the first ones to pull out. Corporate sponsorship is always the first to be dumped when a sponsoring company is finacially strapped.

[stockhatcher]

Mat Hammond said:

Read my lips... (how?) lol..

The crisis is going to kill many teams in F1 and below. I would not be surprised if BMW don't start the season in 2009.

BTW I hope BMW do make the grid in 2009.

GM, Ford, Chrysler are on the edge, Toyota are having trouble and rest assured Mercedes (as per BMW) have stopped selling cars.

These Motorsport budgets are going to be cut BIG time, just look at the Olympics money not being paid now.

V sad

BMW are very definately under the spot light by its board. The circa €500 million budget pa will see to that. And you can tell that next year is crunch time for BMW F1, why else would Mario Thiessen, who is normally fairly reserved in his predictions, come out and said that they are going for the title? Because BMW's board reviewed the costs and declared it only worth doing if they win - and that is the committment they have got from Thiessen.

mark my words, if BMW fail to perform next year.... the viability of the operation will be reviewed.

Edited by stockhatcher on Thursday 4th December 17:35

[Derek Smith]

One fallout from the financial crisis might well be a battle for control of F1 between FOTA and Mosley. The manufacturers might well feel that their interests and those of Mosley do not coincide, or even touch. They are the ones who have invested the money and look to get little back from it. Mosley, by bringing in continual changes in order to cut costs, in the same way one throws water over a dog in order for it to dry out, with the threat of more, has proved himself to be something of a loose cannon.

I can't help thinking that this is the most dangerous time for F1 that I've seen.

[MrKipling43]

Derek Smith said:

I can't help thinking that this is the most dangerous time for F1 that I've seen.

I must confess that I am finding is a little reminiscent of mid-nineties BTCC racing.

Having said that, will the manufacturers walk away with nothing to show for all their investment, without another series in which to compete?

Edited by MrKipling43 on Thursday 4th December 18:15

[:J:]

MrKipling43 said:

phumy said:

But contracts are worthless if there are no pennies in the purse.

Contracts are rarely worthless. Even when there is 'no money in the purse' there will always be money to be found to stop companies going to court.

Think of the F1 Sponsors: RBS, ING, Marlboro, Petrobras, Shell - they can always find a few quid if they absolutely have to.

Weren't RBS one of the banks that had to have a bailout from the Government ? If so, it kind of disproves your theory that they can always find a few quid if they need to

Edited by :J: on Thursday 4th December 18:20

[mattikake]

What's the point in sponsorship to increase sales, consumer visibility and bragging rights when the consumer doesn't want to spend?

F1 would and should be affected.

I have no issues though if F1 is reduced to a 50 kart field of the best drivers in the world.

[jamesbrown]

So we have now been informed that Honda F1 team are up for sale, apart from F1 how many other Motorsports are going to be affected, surely F1 has more money available than most so what happens to Britcar, GT etc? Will there be championships next year even though dates have been issued then of course this has a knock on to the media, gate tickets......

[Mat Hammond]

MrKipling43 said:

Mat Hammond said:

Stuff.

The manufacturers are not that short-sighted. All of them have poured hundreds of millions of pounds into their racing efforts, and they're not going to pull out at the first sign of a rough patch without a Championship or at least a race win to their names. Also, in times of 'economic difficulties' manufacturer-supported motor racing is a good way to keep the company brand prominent in a non-intrusive fashion. It means companies like BMW and Mercedes and Honda and Toyota will be at the forefront of peoples' minds when things start to look up.

They also have contractual obligation to remain in the sport - both to Bernie, the FIA and their sponsors - the penalties for which will be enormous beyond your wildest exagerations.

Edited by MrKipling43 on Thursday 4th December 16:16

This story will be moving to Europe soon, sorry to be so down beat... but this is very bad. When it comes to racing cars or the staff being paid, we know the answer...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7765586.stm

Edited by Mat Hammond on Thursday 4th December 19:34

[Mat Hammond]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21017.html

What did Mr Kipling say...

"They also have contractual obligation to remain in the sport - both to Bernie, the FIA and their sponsors - the penalties for which will be enormous beyond your wildest exagerations"

Mate the money is running out quicker than you think.....

[Plug550]

phumy said:

Financial crisis in the world which will affect motorsport, sponsors are the first ones to start to retract and pull out, where will this leave the teams and the competition.

Anyone think this will affect F1, as these teams dont have bottomless pits?

Prophetic stuff in the light of the Honda news, care to choose my lottery numbers for this week? Will it snow this Christmas?

[MrKipling43]

Mat Hammond said:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21017.html

What did Mr Kipling say...

"They also have contractual obligation to remain in the sport - both to Bernie, the FIA and their sponsors - the penalties for which will be enormous beyond your wildest exagerations"

Mate the money is running out quicker than you think.....

So it would seem.

[flemke]

Mat Hammond said:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21017.html

What did Mr Kipling say...

"They also have contractual obligation to remain in the sport - both to Bernie, the FIA and their sponsors - the penalties for which will be enormous beyond your wildest exagerations"

Mate the money is running out quicker than you think.....

I wouldn't think that there would be any binding obligations between the commercial rights holder and the parent companies (Honda, BMW, etc), only with the entrants themselves.
Even then, the entrants would normally run at a loss (surely Honda has done), so ultimately there would be nothing for FOA to go after.
Super Aguri went tapioca earlier this year; so far as we know, there were no ongoing claims. They sold off their assets to satisy, in part, their general creditors, and that was it.

[Police State]

MrKipling43 said:

Derek Smith said:

I can't help thinking that this is the most dangerous time for F1 that I've seen.

I must confess that I am finding is a little reminiscent of mid-nineties BTCC racing.

Having said that, will the manufacturers walk away with nothing to show for all their investment, without another series in which to compete?

Yes.

Fairly soon they will all wish they were the first to jump, alternative series or not. Besides, all the manufacturers will 'remember' something that they have always known. They don't actually need formula 1 (except perhaps Ferrari).

[Derek Smith]

BMW and Honda struggling. Car sales the lowest for years. This is the end of F1 as we know it. Regardless of what Mosley does, FOTA will have to sort this out. We can't have irresponsible rule changes as and when it occurs to the FiA. I mean, what is the point of KERS over and above the waste of money? What is the point of Mosley?