What would you like to see in the WRC then?
Discussion
Looks like the downfall of the WRC as we know it is upon us.....
What would like to see buzzing the forest & winter stages of the world & why? What homolgation cars have you owned or currently own & why?
I myself would like to see more showroom spec cars, allbeit slightly tasty ones, minimal modifications, off the shelf add ons you & I can buy. The WRC becoming more of an endurance series pushing the limits of the cars you & I can buy.
Now I personally have owned a large selection of previously rally homologated machinery, all of which I've thouroughly enjoyed owning & driving. No doubt the urge to own these cars has come from watching them on the telly over the years & or reading about their exploits. I really can't see myself wanting to own a Citroen Xsara, or Hyandai Accent plebmobile that bears nothing bar a passing resemblence to the more recent machinery on the WRC. Whats the point of sequential boxes, trick diffs & 4wd drive systems if you & I can't buy them!!!
So some of the Homologated beasties I've owned over the years include
Mazda 323 Turbo 4x4, GT-X & GT-R
Mistubishi Starion Turbo (think they're homologated)
Nissan Sunny GTi-R
Celica GT4 WRC
Scoobie WRX STi's
Mitsubishi EVO I GSR, II's & III's
Saab 99 Turbo's
On my list of must have's before I'm too old
Lancia Delta Intergrale
RS200 or something GroupB'ish
What would like to see buzzing the forest & winter stages of the world & why? What homolgation cars have you owned or currently own & why?
I myself would like to see more showroom spec cars, allbeit slightly tasty ones, minimal modifications, off the shelf add ons you & I can buy. The WRC becoming more of an endurance series pushing the limits of the cars you & I can buy.
Now I personally have owned a large selection of previously rally homologated machinery, all of which I've thouroughly enjoyed owning & driving. No doubt the urge to own these cars has come from watching them on the telly over the years & or reading about their exploits. I really can't see myself wanting to own a Citroen Xsara, or Hyandai Accent plebmobile that bears nothing bar a passing resemblence to the more recent machinery on the WRC. Whats the point of sequential boxes, trick diffs & 4wd drive systems if you & I can't buy them!!!
So some of the Homologated beasties I've owned over the years include
Mazda 323 Turbo 4x4, GT-X & GT-R
Mistubishi Starion Turbo (think they're homologated)
Nissan Sunny GTi-R
Celica GT4 WRC
Scoobie WRX STi's
Mitsubishi EVO I GSR, II's & III's
Saab 99 Turbo's
On my list of must have's before I'm too old
Lancia Delta Intergrale
RS200 or something GroupB'ish
Edited by cptsideways on Tuesday 16th December 20:22
Know the feeling, If I were to win the lottery,some of the first cars I would buy would be an Evo 5, Impreza Turbo, Escort Cosworth and a Celica GT4.
Always wondered why Audi never bothered with WRC, since the Group B Quattro days they don't seem to have taken much interest in rallying. I think the S3 would make an ideal base for a rally car, the road car certainly seems solid enough. 200+bhp from a turbocharged engine and 4wd would put it amongst the front runners.
Always wondered why Audi never bothered with WRC, since the Group B Quattro days they don't seem to have taken much interest in rallying. I think the S3 would make an ideal base for a rally car, the road car certainly seems solid enough. 200+bhp from a turbocharged engine and 4wd would put it amongst the front runners.
Funny I was thinking about this last night, I would love to see Porsche 996 GT3'S like this competing- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=grlqdthGIJE&feat...
Back to sideways action and noise!!!
Back to sideways action and noise!!!
castrolcraig said:
kevin ritson said:
RWD cars, normally aspirated 2.0 litre engines and get Rallies back to endurance events, lasting 4-5 days over long distances, day and night and in all conditions. None of this "we had to cancel the stage as it was a bit frosty" nonsense.
bang on in my opinion...I think manufacturers might have to revert to the '500 road car homologation special' idea purely because manufacturers aren't going to build a new model just to take it rallying. Mind you, if that means we get specials like the Delta Integrale and the Escort Cosworth again that isn't a bad thing
GTO Scott said:
castrolcraig said:
kevin ritson said:
RWD cars, normally aspirated 2.0 litre engines and get Rallies back to endurance events, lasting 4-5 days over long distances, day and night and in all conditions. None of this "we had to cancel the stage as it was a bit frosty" nonsense.
bang on in my opinion...skylinecrazy said:
GTO Scott said:
castrolcraig said:
kevin ritson said:
RWD cars, normally aspirated 2.0 litre engines and get Rallies back to endurance events, lasting 4-5 days over long distances, day and night and in all conditions. None of this "we had to cancel the stage as it was a bit frosty" nonsense.
bang on in my opinion...[pedantmode]
Of course, the VX220 with the 2 litre engine has a turbo, though a 2.0 N/A wouldn't be too hard to engineer.
[/pedant]
castrolcraig said:
kevin ritson said:
RWD cars, normally aspirated 2.0 litre engines and get Rallies back to endurance events, lasting 4-5 days over long distances, day and night and in all conditions. None of this "we had to cancel the stage as it was a bit frosty" nonsense.
bang on in my opinion...Although, I would just make it 2wd, to allow manufacturers to use existing fwd 'hot hatches' or someone using say a BMW 135i or Nissan 350Z etc.
With just 2wd, engines could be free as the traction limition of 2wd won't matter whether you've got 240hp or 340hp. Like the old days of 911's, Datsun 240Z's, Stratos, TR8's etc, as well as Escort's and such like.
Events to be secret as well, so a big reduction in costs with no need for recce and pace notes and all the associated stuff that swells teams.
Oh, and as for homolgation cars owned....
Escort Mexico
Escort Twin Cam (so wish I still had that
)Group A Sunbeam Ti
Sunbeam-Lotus
3.0 litre, NA screemers mid engined in a prototype chassis so all the manufacturers could build one cheaply, running on much longer events so you had to build them strong. Basically a load of similar cars to Andy Burton's Peugeot Cosworth. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W_DeWBNJG0A&feat...
I'm sure just the capabilities of modern tyres, dampers and chassis engineering means the sheer wild uncontrollable driveability of a Group B car could never be replicated by any self respecting engineer 
Don't forget that the FIA have been trialing a RWD class in the European Rallycross. Although it's been slow to take off, the rulebook is there to enable people to convert Fiestas to RWD (for example) or use existing 2l cars like a BMW 1-series. Using 'specials' like these would probably not appeal to a manufacturer but it would appeal to a few wealthy gentlemen/privateers I'd think and bring a nice bit of variety.
Personally I am perfectly happy with the WRC cars, they look good so fast on the road and obviously are fast
If was a charismatic Brit, or a rallying Hamilton then British dollars would be flooding back into rallying like the Burns/McRae days, thus in my eyes it's not the fault of the vehicles. The only problem with the WRC class was the lack of numbers and without more public support more numbers won't be drawn back to the sport.
Don't forget that the FIA have been trialing a RWD class in the European Rallycross. Although it's been slow to take off, the rulebook is there to enable people to convert Fiestas to RWD (for example) or use existing 2l cars like a BMW 1-series. Using 'specials' like these would probably not appeal to a manufacturer but it would appeal to a few wealthy gentlemen/privateers I'd think and bring a nice bit of variety.
Personally I am perfectly happy with the WRC cars, they look good so fast on the road and obviously are fast
If was a charismatic Brit, or a rallying Hamilton then British dollars would be flooding back into rallying like the Burns/McRae days, thus in my eyes it's not the fault of the vehicles. The only problem with the WRC class was the lack of numbers and without more public support more numbers won't be drawn back to the sport.
Edited by zac510 on Tuesday 16th December 22:25
To be honest, cars are only a small part of rallying. I would like to see a return to longer stages - even if the overall event is shorter. So, rather than a rally taking four days just make it a weekend (more accessible for spectators), but start at the crack of dawn on Saturday and finish late on Sunday - with long stages. Include 'spectator friendly' stages such as what we used to see at Chatsworth House, then head into the forests for the rest.
Fast cars are interesting whatever formula they adhere to, it's what you do with them that counts IMHO.
Fast cars are interesting whatever formula they adhere to, it's what you do with them that counts IMHO.
johnfelstead said:
3.0 litre, NA screemers mid engined in a prototype chassis so all the manufacturers could build one cheaply, running on much longer events so you had to build them strong. Basically a load of similar cars to Andy Burton's Peugeot Cosworth. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W_DeWBNJG0A&feat...
Hey John, what about the OP who thinks that homologated cars you can buy from the dealer are the duck's guts? Can't please everyone 
It's not just about the cars, WRC needs the personalities.
Colin, Gigi, Carlos, Pond, Clark, Tommi, Delacour, Duvall ..... now Rossi
I've always rather watched a driver that entertained, than a clinically quick Marcus or Seb. Someone who doesn't lift for a tight corner, but would rather turn harder and floor it. These are the guys that I had on my wall as a kid, and now as a wallpaper on my PC ... A return to a screaming RWD (or deliberately rear bias 4x4) NA car that would travel the stages like a 70's Mk2 would mean that these types of entertainers would become the quickest style to get a stage time rather than the neat and tidy WRC dominators.
In no way do I take anything from Loebs inspirational achievements. He really is man and machine as one. I just think that a car that would mean that a fast time needed a bit more "attitude" would make the series more marketable globally ..... The "bin or win" style might get a bit frustrating to the teams purse holders of course though.
Colin, Gigi, Carlos, Pond, Clark, Tommi, Delacour, Duvall ..... now Rossi
I've always rather watched a driver that entertained, than a clinically quick Marcus or Seb. Someone who doesn't lift for a tight corner, but would rather turn harder and floor it. These are the guys that I had on my wall as a kid, and now as a wallpaper on my PC ... A return to a screaming RWD (or deliberately rear bias 4x4) NA car that would travel the stages like a 70's Mk2 would mean that these types of entertainers would become the quickest style to get a stage time rather than the neat and tidy WRC dominators.
In no way do I take anything from Loebs inspirational achievements. He really is man and machine as one. I just think that a car that would mean that a fast time needed a bit more "attitude" would make the series more marketable globally ..... The "bin or win" style might get a bit frustrating to the teams purse holders of course though.
I don't think it would be such a big deal to convert a lot of cars available today to rear wheel drive. It wasn't that long ago that MK3 & 4 Escorts could be converted with the relevant kit, angle grinder and welder and a spare weekend. This was work carried out generally by enthusiasts so not really beyond a half decent engineer. Similarly, I believe Starlets are converted to rearwheel drive for Hot Rod events, again not overly complicated engineering. I strongly suspect that given the opportunity to get to the world stage, plenty of privateers would find a way to build and prepare a decent car for a more "rudimentary" WRC. (The guy who built the Alfa/Ferrari & Pug/Cosworth springs to mind).
Homog. Cars owned. RS2000 MKII and E30 M3.....still got both :-))
Homog. Cars owned. RS2000 MKII and E30 M3.....still got both :-))
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