Eddie Irvine - Should he have been world champion?
Discussion
Rich VRS said:
I am a bit young to remember too much about mr irvine however what i do remember is a very good driver who only seemed to be allowed to compete for the championship as schumacher was injured.
so was he championship material? or just a good character and racer.
or none of the above? so was he championship material? or just a good character and racer.
Eddie was fast enough to be world champion and often sat just a couple of car lengths behind Schumacher throughout a race. But what he lacked was focus, he was too fond of having a good time (not necessarily a bad thing).
When Schumacher broke his leg Eddie showed what he was made of, he saw an opportunity to win the championship and this focused his mind, this was the golden era of his career. Except for a 'botched' Ferrari pitstop where they inexpicably 'forgot' a wheel he could well have done it.
When Schumacher broke his leg Eddie showed what he was made of, he saw an opportunity to win the championship and this focused his mind, this was the golden era of his career. Except for a 'botched' Ferrari pitstop where they inexpicably 'forgot' a wheel he could well have done it.
I think Irvine had a reasonable crack at being WDC, but I don't think he was hungry enough. I always liked his attitude though, and he put some great drives in at Jaguar in the twilight of his career. He also showed himself to be a canny operator - he has ended up far richer than most former GP drivers by investing shrewdly.
No, never came close. He only got the break because Michael got the...erm...break. Mika Salo had him beaten only two races into his Ferrari stint (and I wonder if he looks back and regrets letting Eddie through?) and only came close because McLaren took their eye off the ball once the threat had gone. Frentzen was nearly champion that year too, as was DC. Arguably the best driver of the season was Ralf...
What really amazed me about Irvine was his sheer cheek in dismissing Senna, yet idolising Schuey. Sounds like a man who thinks he's principled until a bag of money comes his way, making him no better than anyone else. And no, you were never the second best driver in the world, I'd have stuggled to put him in the top 20 - look at how Brundle, Barrichello and Massa have compared to Michael. Far better.
Potential World Champion? He was little more than Michael Schumacher's loud-mouthed stooge.
What really amazed me about Irvine was his sheer cheek in dismissing Senna, yet idolising Schuey. Sounds like a man who thinks he's principled until a bag of money comes his way, making him no better than anyone else. And no, you were never the second best driver in the world, I'd have stuggled to put him in the top 20 - look at how Brundle, Barrichello and Massa have compared to Michael. Far better.
Potential World Champion? He was little more than Michael Schumacher's loud-mouthed stooge.
I still think the ferrari pitstop was deliberate- with Schumacher earning millions and putting all the hours into developing the car, to have the number 2 win the coverted prize before him would be both annoying and embarassing, so Ferrari made a "mistake" and Eddie lost the cmapionship to Hakkinen.
kevin ritson said:
No, never came close. He only got the break because Michael got the...erm...break. Mika Salo had him beaten only two races into his Ferrari stint (and I wonder if he looks back and regrets letting Eddie through?) and only came close because McLaren took their eye off the ball once the threat had gone. Frentzen was nearly champion that year too, as was DC. Arguably the best driver of the season was Ralf...
What really amazed me about Irvine was his sheer cheek in dismissing Senna, yet idolising Schuey. Sounds like a man who thinks he's principled until a bag of money comes his way, making him no better than anyone else. And no, you were never the second best driver in the world, I'd have stuggled to put him in the top 20 - look at how Brundle, Barrichello and Massa have compared to Michael. Far better.
Potential World Champion? He was little more than Michael Schumacher's loud-mouthed stooge.
I'm with you.What really amazed me about Irvine was his sheer cheek in dismissing Senna, yet idolising Schuey. Sounds like a man who thinks he's principled until a bag of money comes his way, making him no better than anyone else. And no, you were never the second best driver in the world, I'd have stuggled to put him in the top 20 - look at how Brundle, Barrichello and Massa have compared to Michael. Far better.
Potential World Champion? He was little more than Michael Schumacher's loud-mouthed stooge.
Second best in the world? Not even second best in Ferrari. He was fun but was in it for the money. Anyone of his intelligence who went to Ferrari in the MSchuey years knew full well that they were a glorifed test driver. Ferrari, in the years of RB, RB, JT, etc was a one man team. If Irvine was a threat to Schuey he would have been dumped and another lap dog recruited.
And to add one to the above list, Herbert.
Whilst what he said was always off the wall, it didn't give any insight into the sport. It was just a laugh and said more about him than anyone/thing else. He enlivened F1 and that was about it.
Derek Smith said:
kevin ritson said:
No, never came close. He only got the break because Michael got the...erm...break. Mika Salo had him beaten only two races into his Ferrari stint (and I wonder if he looks back and regrets letting Eddie through?) and only came close because McLaren took their eye off the ball once the threat had gone. Frentzen was nearly champion that year too, as was DC. Arguably the best driver of the season was Ralf...
What really amazed me about Irvine was his sheer cheek in dismissing Senna, yet idolising Schuey. Sounds like a man who thinks he's principled until a bag of money comes his way, making him no better than anyone else. And no, you were never the second best driver in the world, I'd have stuggled to put him in the top 20 - look at how Brundle, Barrichello and Massa have compared to Michael. Far better.
Potential World Champion? He was little more than Michael Schumacher's loud-mouthed stooge.
I'm with you.What really amazed me about Irvine was his sheer cheek in dismissing Senna, yet idolising Schuey. Sounds like a man who thinks he's principled until a bag of money comes his way, making him no better than anyone else. And no, you were never the second best driver in the world, I'd have stuggled to put him in the top 20 - look at how Brundle, Barrichello and Massa have compared to Michael. Far better.
Potential World Champion? He was little more than Michael Schumacher's loud-mouthed stooge.
Second best in the world? Not even second best in Ferrari. He was fun but was in it for the money. Anyone of his intelligence who went to Ferrari in the MSchuey years knew full well that they were a glorifed test driver. Ferrari, in the years of RB, RB, JT, etc was a one man team. If Irvine was a threat to Schuey he would have been dumped and another lap dog recruited.
And to add one to the above list, Herbert.
Whilst what he said was always off the wall, it didn't give any insight into the sport. It was just a laugh and said more about him than anyone/thing else. He enlivened F1 and that was about it.
kevin ritson said:
No, never came close. He only got the break because Michael got the...erm...break. Mika Salo had him beaten only two races into his Ferrari stint (and I wonder if he looks back and regrets letting Eddie through?)
Yes Salo did hand Irvine some points, but equally Irvine had already given some to Schumacher that year before Silverstone.Someone suggests that Irvine was in it for the money, but he was a millionaire before he ever went into F1(being a wise investor), and is now worth around £160million, more than most team owners.
What he lacked was the passion, it was all just a big laugh to him, he was the last of the Playboy racers, and he was a bloody entertaining driver, could he have won the WDC? Yes. Should he have won? thats all down to personal opinion.
The man was a legend off the start line, especially in his early day, fair enough he usually caused a crash, but he almost made it stick most of the time.
What he lacked was the passion, it was all just a big laugh to him, he was the last of the Playboy racers, and he was a bloody entertaining driver, could he have won the WDC? Yes. Should he have won? thats all down to personal opinion.
The man was a legend off the start line, especially in his early day, fair enough he usually caused a crash, but he almost made it stick most of the time.
onemorelap said:
To clarify Derek, are you stating that Herbert was a threat so was booted out or are you putting him in the same class as Irvine as a lap dog?
My apologies for being obscure. Herbert was a class above Irvine. Herbert said that after putting in some excellent qualifying time he was refused access to MScuey's set up data although, of course, his was available to MS.
I always reckoned Herbert. After his accident at Brands his luck seemed to change. Whilst I'm not the world's best spotter of driving talent, I stick by my initial assessment of JH as a potential champion.
And my assessment of Irvine of course. As others have said on this thread, he was unable to realise his potential as he lacked committment. He always seemed to me to have stopped off at the circuit on his way to the beach.
Derek Smith said:
onemorelap said:
To clarify Derek, are you stating that Herbert was a threat so was booted out or are you putting him in the same class as Irvine as a lap dog?
My apologies for being obscure. Herbert was a class above Irvine. Herbert said that after putting in some excellent qualifying time he was refused access to MScuey's set up data although, of course, his was available to MS.
I always reckoned Herbert. After his accident at Brands his luck seemed to change. Whilst I'm not the world's best spotter of driving talent, I stick by my initial assessment of JH as a potential champion.
And my assessment of Irvine of course. As others have said on this thread, he was unable to realise his potential as he lacked committment. He always seemed to me to have stopped off at the circuit on his way to the beach.
The comments ref: Herbert are spot on. If it wasn't for the antics of a certain Mr Foitek i think his F1 career had the potential to be very good.
His inherent pace in the junior formulae was obvious and his doggedness to initially recover from his injuries and then still have a prolonged F1 career was admirable.
His win (albeit slightly fortunate) in the 95 BGP was, for me, just deserts and i've never been so pleased for a driver before or since really. My mate and i went ballistic down at club when JH won that day.
As for Irvine i concur. Always liked the character more than the driver. No more than that really.
The technical answer to the question is "Yes"
Were it not for the botched pitstop he should have won.
In all reality, he didn't really deserve it. He was gifted a win by Salo and Schumacher moved over for him in Malaysia.
I liked Eddie - he was fast and didn't take the whole F1 circus too seriously. Maybe that was his failing - that blase attitude led to criticism of him now being focused enough.
Were it not for the botched pitstop he should have won.
In all reality, he didn't really deserve it. He was gifted a win by Salo and Schumacher moved over for him in Malaysia.
I liked Eddie - he was fast and didn't take the whole F1 circus too seriously. Maybe that was his failing - that blase attitude led to criticism of him now being focused enough.
Just thinking about the whole "he doesn't deserve it because Salo and Schumacher gifted him wins" argument, and now i think about it, thats the case for every WDC ever, Schumacher would probably have only half his titles had his team mates not played 2nd fiddle, and gifted him wins every now and then.
Irvine did deserve it after all then...well maybe..
Irvine did deserve it after all then...well maybe..
Muzzer said:
The technical answer to the question is "Yes"
Were it not for the botched pitstop he should have won.
In all reality, he didn't really deserve it. He was gifted a win by Salo and Schumacher moved over for him in Malaysia.
I liked Eddie - he was fast and didn't take the whole F1 circus too seriously. Maybe that was his failing - that blase attitude led to criticism of him now being focused enough.
Totally agree. Were it not for the botched pitstop he should have won.
In all reality, he didn't really deserve it. He was gifted a win by Salo and Schumacher moved over for him in Malaysia.
I liked Eddie - he was fast and didn't take the whole F1 circus too seriously. Maybe that was his failing - that blase attitude led to criticism of him now being focused enough.
He was a playboy, pure and simple. Anyone who's seen a year in the life type documentary of 1999 would see Irv on his scooter literally parading round the spectators inviting all the fit women to his hotel room in a 5 second 'conversation'. Natuarlly they'd all agree! lol Who wouldn't?
btw Schumi was absolutely superb in Malayasia. By far the best team performance I've ever seen by a driver, letting Irv through and blocking both McLarens in one move. I though he'd deliberately not help as well as he could, but did the opposite, so he could win Ferrari's first WDC since Prost. First time he earned some respect from me.
FourWheelDrift said:
I have removed all the pedantry remarks on this thread, they are really not necessary.
Talk motor sports.
thanks, and sorry for pulling it even more OT.Talk motor sports.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
hi Dizzeee, sorry my laptop has been playing up at home, ill have a look tonight and get back to you asap.Ive been doing some reading on Irvine and a few places seem to have put him as been wealthier than flavio! not sure how true they are though!
IMO Irvine was an excellent driver, worthy of F1, but not in the same class talent and commitment wise as many of his era.
Credit must be given though in that he got where he was and you have to be at the front to be in the position to take over when the top bloke bins it.
When he went to Ferrari Irvine was very clear that he knew what the deal was and that he wa willing to live with it. I think had he, say, gone to Williams he would have faded without a trace as he just wasn't interest in developing cars, only racing them. Given that he was a very happy man to have a team mate like MS who would spend all hours getting the car as good as it could.
As for Salo regretting moving over in '99? There was an interview with him in Autosport a while back asking the very same question. I can't remember the exact reply but the gist was that it would have been nice to have had that to his name but pulling over was one of the best long term carrier moves he ever made.
Credit must be given though in that he got where he was and you have to be at the front to be in the position to take over when the top bloke bins it.
When he went to Ferrari Irvine was very clear that he knew what the deal was and that he wa willing to live with it. I think had he, say, gone to Williams he would have faded without a trace as he just wasn't interest in developing cars, only racing them. Given that he was a very happy man to have a team mate like MS who would spend all hours getting the car as good as it could.
As for Salo regretting moving over in '99? There was an interview with him in Autosport a while back asking the very same question. I can't remember the exact reply but the gist was that it would have been nice to have had that to his name but pulling over was one of the best long term carrier moves he ever made.
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